Dime Q&A: Young Guru On Whether The NBA Today Could Hang With Jordan, Hip-Hop’s Top 5, And Being Recruited To Hoop In College

There’s no question that Young Guru has seen it all. An avid basketball junkie, Guru experienced the greatness of Jordan, Magic and Bird. On the flip side, he’s also seen hip-hop carve itself a beautiful lane in the world we live in today. He was able to sit and watch the greats such as Notorious B.I.G., 2Pac Shakur, Rakim, Kool Mo Dee, Jay-Z transform the essence of lyricism. Rudimentary flows were now out the window, as these greats heightened the bar with double- and triple-entendres. With basketball and hip-hop synonymous – as depicted in last week’s All-Star game with a bevy of artists in attendance – the correlation of the two entities is as at all-time high.

Arguably one of the greatest engineers and minds in the realm of hip-hop, Guru’s influence is sprinkled around the culture. He’s worked Jay-Z and has played imperative roles in orchestrating many of Hov’s albums, more notably The Black Album. It also goes beyond music with Guru, with his philanthropy as a founder of the Young Guru Foundation that gives scholarship money to those in dire need. We were able to talk to Guru before the All-Star break and get this insight on the All-Stars, if college athletes should be paid, Top 5 rappers ever, and who indeed is the Michael, Kobe, and Lebron of the world of rap.

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Dime: How do you feel about the All-Stars this year and the reserves chosen?
YG: I don’t know man. I don’t know man. Is that really an All-Star game? Can we really call it an All-Star? No disrespect but it’s a special thing to become an All-Star at least in my book. If we went on who deserved to be an All-Star from this year and that year, this year wouldn’t hold the same weight as far as reserves. I want to see the top NBA players in my opinion. It’s almost like you have a shortened season, it makes your championship a little bit less than what everybody had to go through. I don’t know. The reserves thing to me, it’s hard for me to call that.

Dime: I mean you had your James Harden giving you over 25 points. You had Russell Westbrook who’s arguably a top-five point guard. You’ve had your Tony Parker What else do you need?
YG: I need the top players from everybody’s teams. I need the top All-Stars. I think Miami has three. I think the two players or top player should be included. Like Westbrook, defininitely. He’s a top two player. Don’t get me wrong, there are some good players in there. I don’t know.

Dime: You not feeling the Luol Deng type of players?
YG: Nah. Is he a top [player]? He’s a dope role player. He’s an above average role player. But is he top?

Dime: You gotta look at it like this: He was an All-Star last year. He’s been putting up 18 this year on a team without their MVP in Derrick Rose.
YG: I get that. But this is what I’m saying. He’s definitely a great supporting cast player. You’re not putting him as the man in your movies right? It’s like the Oscars, he’d be great for the supporting cast.

Dime: But these players I think we’re chosen because they’ve helped their team win games. A lot of these players were chosen based of having a great season statistically and were responsible in winning games.
YG: I hear you. But that’s what you get paid for. The All-Star has historically been about the All-Stars of the league, people that are the top exceptional players. Right? So would you consider Rudy Gay as an All-Star or would you put him as one of the best night in and night out consistent players?

Dime: I’d say he’s in between but I don’t think he’s an All-Star.
YG: Right. That’s my point. But does Rudy Gay consistently put up numbers?

Dime: He does.
YG: That’s my point. The All-Stars should be for superstars. If we look at the history of the greatest teams and greatest years, it was meant to be another notch on your belt. It was supposed to be an accolade.

Dime: You could tell me if I’m wrong. Maybe it comes down to the league being watered-down with talent? You don’t the Isiahs, the Larrys, and the Patricks anymore?
YG: So let me ask you a question? How do you feel about these kids coming out super early?

Dime: I think it could go either way. Because you could also have someone like a Kyrie Irving whose an All-Star at 20 years old.
YG: Don’t get me wrong. You got examples of kids who came from that mold like the LeBrons, and the KGs, and even back to Barkley. But these are the exceptions. These were the exceptions to the rules. They were supposed to come and do that – the ones that came straight from high school. Lebron was supposed to go straight. Or certain people that only did their year in college, it was like, “Ok. He’s a man amongst boys. He needs to go the league.

Dime: Like Kevin Durant.
YG: Right. But it’s about the other people. Are they supposed to leave? I always tell cats like why take the extra year just for physical reasons, just to work out?! Get your body right for the league. Let alone, be the man on campus for another year.

Dime: I hear you. But, you’ll probably agree with me on this. You have people living in the hood that can’t afford to wait and have their families starving.
YG: That money is going to be there and possibly in a bigger way if you come into the league correctly. So are you just going to come in and help your family out for a year? For a few years and you come back just to work regularly? Look at the vast amount of people that just was not ready. They went into a system where they basically could of survived another year in college and got their stock up, and got more money. So now, I’m going to come on another angle; are you shorting yourself by just going for the quick money? I’m so tired of hearing that “I gotta get my family out of the struggle.” Everybody has a family situation but you know by the end of that year, you’re going to get the money. It’s not like the money is going to disappear. And then people come with the “Oh. You have the possibility of getting hurt.” Well you got a possibility of being hurt in the NBA!

Dime: Do you think it would help if college kids were compensated?
YG: Absolutely. Now you’re telling me, you’re compensating me by giving me an education. Well ok, lets say at an expensive school where the education is at a how many thousands per year, you minus that from how many posters and seats I’m helping you bring in. The money you make far outweighs the education costs for that semester or lets say for the year. These kids are bringing in so much money into the universities for them not to get paid. It’s a business. Colleges are a business. They’re bringing in a gang of money from people coming into these games and are actually selling merchandise with my name on it!

Dime: I don’t think a $400 stipend would hurt anybody but you gotta understand, it’s not just the basketball team that’s going to have to get paid. You’re going to have to pay the lacrosse team, the volleyball team, and all the other athletes as well.
YG: I think it should be relative to how much money they’re bringing in. If the volleyball team got 200 people coming into their games, it should just go by how much money you’re making. That’s what it really is. If we’re at a prestigious school, there’s no way the swimming team at Notre Dame is telling me that they’re bringing the same amount of money as the football team. There’s some schools were lacrosse and baseball outdo basketball and baseball. If that’s the case, those kids should be compensated more. I think students should definitely get paid and it should be on a relative scale.

[Our call gets disconnected but we segue into a discussion of the NBA’s perception]

Young Guru: I’m not even trying to shit on the league man. Don’t get me wrong. I say to people all the time, I remember basketball. I’m 38. I remember the league pre ’80s when it wasn’t that big. It takes an event. It takes that Boston vs. LA or that Philly and LA thing. It takes those rivalries to make that special thing. So now, I think the NBA is still looking for what the new identity is going to be. When you had Jordan leave, it was like, “Ok. Who’s going to be the next?” We get a Kobe. Then we saw started putting things on him that he didn’t necessarily ask for because we ourselves are looking for the next messiah. Then we put the same thing on LeBron when LeBron didn’t necessarily say that. Maybe you can say he messed up when he accepted the name King because now you have all these haters saying, “Oh. He’s not Jordan. He’s not Jordan.” But the league can’t front like they don’t need that. They need that. They need somebody to be the poster child. Yao Ming did as much as he could for the league outside the states even though he’s not in the league no more. You got so many people watching the league, that the league needs somebody that they can go behind. We don’t see that. We just see regular ball and then we’re like, “Oh the league is going down.” Nah the league is from the talent that comes out the college.

Dime: I agree. But you still have the Kevin Durants. You still have the LeBron James. You still have players who call ball. Are you telling me that new cats can compete against the old school in Jordan, Magic, and Bird?
YG: I don’t think they could. I don’t think in every department they’re set. That dream team back then had everything in every department. I don’t know. In some degree, they could match up. But in other departments, I don’t think they could matchup. I don’t know they would play together Iike how the first dream team played together. You understand what I mean?

Dime: But one glaring thing that the new school has over the old school is athleticism. You can’t argue that Guru.
YG: Oh of course, of course. But they could trade that loss of athleticism for knowing the game. I don’t want to say knowing the game. I want to say playing together. It’s a team sport my dude. In playing together, yeah you may have the 40 but we’ve seen that. The NBA knows how to play Michael Jordan. They would play, he would get 60, and they would still lose while trying to guard everybody else. That’s how they play Michael Jordan. It’s a team sport. The way Jordan did it was that he drew everybody to him, and then dish out to Kukoc. He would draw everybody to him and then kick it out to Pippen. He also knew how to adapt. He was like, “I’m a slasher. I’m going to go to the hole and dunk on you.” He got older and his knees weren’t the same, so he developed the fade away. Then he developed his passing. And he would lead that way. That’s the difference man. There was more of an education of the game back then. Like I said, the athleticism they got that those young cats. But, they’re all concerned with those And-1 moves instead of learning the game like when we were coming up in high school. It was so much more and about learning the game. When you saw this defense, you did this. Or like how to defend in certain zones. There are just certain things that kids don’t know. They don’t know that. They just attack, attack, and attack. That’s all they know.

Dime: The IQ’s not there.
YG: Right. Forget the class with Kobe and them watching the gametape. Not to call anybody out, but I’ve seen professionals out in the clubs. I’m like, “Don’t you got a game tomorrow?” (Laughs) Like tomorrow!?

Dime: Cats are trying to be on the next series of ESPN’s “Broke” documentary.
YG: I don’t get it. The culture is different. Back then, it wasn’t a culture of Magic Johnson was supposed to go make it rain at the club. Now, the average guy thinks he suppose to do that.

Dime: But you know why, it’s because of the correlation of Hip-Hop and Basketball are so close now.
YG: Right. Yes, yes, absolutely. It is the culture, but somebody has to educate these kids when they come in. You know the same way that when you first come in, there’s a class that tells you what to do. They tell you this what you need to do, how you need to survive, and learn from the mistakes that people here have made before. All of that should be apart of the training because at the end of the day, we’re dealing with 19-20 year old kids. Let’s keep it funky, half of the kids were whisked through the system because they are players. They may have not had the best education but were in college. You know I was heavy Division II. I’m not even going to act like I was balling. But I was heavily recruited by Division II schools because my grades were incredible too. I’m 6-5 and I was a great floor man. Even when I went on my lower ends of Division II, and saw what was going on, I was like, “Oh snap. I could imagine what’s happening to the heavily recruited Division I dudes.” He’s getting the cars. I don’t care who you are. He’s getting all of the stuff that’s being offered to him. So let alone, is he really being required to pass this course?

Dime: It’s like “He Got Game” all over.
YG: Yeah and it doesn’t necessarily have to be on some super dramatic level like he can’t read. I’m saying that nobody is really going to say nothing to the kid. Well you might say the coach will say something. Nah, the coach is going to lie. My point being is that when the kids get in, they need to be taught what to do with their money. That’s just the whole thing. That’s just the same story all over again. You can’t tell a grown man what to do, but you could advise him. That’s my whole point.

Dime: Is it safe to say we can give Hov that Michael Jordan title?
YG: Then where would you put Big? Where would you put Pac?

Dime: Good point.
YG: I’m just asking a question. If you’re asking me, then yes. He’s definitely the Michael Jordan of the rap game. But then, it’s like, where do you put certain people? Where would you put a 2Pac? who may not have been as lyrical as Jay. Lyrically Pac can’t see Jay, but you have to take into account Pac’s influence. You gotta look at how many people loved Pac. He may not be as poetic or have the couplets that Jay-Z has but Pac emotion was so powerful. That’s the essence of poetry – being able to move people. If you’re going to ask people who can outrhyme who, you’re going to say Jay-Z. But if you say, who’s going to kill the mood, like which emcee could move the people? Pac would have the whole nation moving with him. That’s why I ask those questions like where do you put Big? Where you do put Pac?

Dime: If you ask me my Top 5, not even basketball-related, but I would go out and say, Pac, Big, Jay, Nas, and Eminem. That’s not in order.
YG: Oooooh, ok. Now as much respect that I have for Pac. Pac’s not in my top 5.

Dime: But it’s like what you just said. The influence he’s had over not only the genre of music but on the world was crazy. He has murals in South America!
YG: Nah you don’t gotta tell me that. I hear you. But I’m a realist. Here’s my top 5. You ready? If you ask me whose the most influential is. I’ve been around the world and Pac’s face is on all walls. He influenced the world better than any other emcee. But still, I don’t have Pac in my top 5. I don’t feel like he was the most skillful rapper. Then Em, I can’t put that in my top 5.

Dime: If you’re talking about the double- and triple-entendres, he got that if you’re talking about the mechanics.
YG: In what though? OK so is Eminem better than Kool G Rap? Is Eminem better than Rakim? I could keep going. We’re talking about top 5 of all time. We’re talking about the best emcees ever.

Dime: I agree. But you have to look at it like this. Eminem – just like Hov – may have 100 to 200 different flows. They both deliver you a new flow on a new track.
YG: Don’t get it wrong. Eminem is one of the greatest emcees we’ve ever had, but top five is hard for me because I was there when Eminem was sleeping on the couch with the outsiders and they basically took certain emcees flows and incorporated theirs all together. And, I don’t relate to Eminem. When he rhymes, I don’t feel the relation. When I hear Mos Def rhyme, and he says certain words, I could relate to that. Mos says stuff that I relate to. It’s a perfect description of my environment. When Em says stuff, it’s like, “Ok. That was cute, but that’s not realistic. You just made that up.” You’re not really throwing your girl in the back of the car. You’re not doing that. That’s a fairy tale. That’s fiction. He’s a great ficition writer. But that’s not really what’s going on. There are really certain emcees that I would have to put in front of Em. Rakim has to be above Eminem. He has to be. To me, Melly Mel gotta be above Eminem. I’m big on the old school. Like dudes wouldn’t be here if these dudes didn’t invent that. I think Black Thought is a better emcee. I think Mos Def would kill Eminem in a rhyme battle.

Dime: Kill is a strong word man.
YG: That’s my personal opinion. Mos Def would kill Eminem. I think people give Eminem too much credit. Again, this has nothing to do with the boy being white or none of that. It has nothing to do with that. I’m looking at his artistry. You gotta take away the hype of who Eminem is. You gotta take away the controversy with Marilyn Manson, and all that. I’m talking about listening to a record and what you say on the record is the type of feeling you get. All the other stuff is frivolous to me. That’s a small part of it. He has a bunch of influence power that is based off media. That’s why Pac is high to me on that list. I’m going based off the music. It’s like when you’re talking MC. When you’re talking about Microphone Controller; somebody that moves a crowd, or you talking about somebody putting together songs, or presentation of albums, I don’t know I gotta put a bunch of emcees ahead of Em. Top 5?! That’s five. That’s saying Jay-Z, Big, Pac. That’s three already.

Dime: What about Nas?
YG: Now here’s my problem with Nas. Nas is probably one of the illest writers that we ever had but Nas picks wack beats. Now, I feel like Nas is getting into his mold where his last album was exactly what I wanted from Nas. He made a grown hip-hop album. He doesn’t always pick a hot beat. That’s my thing with Nas. Then it’s like ok, if you look at complete bodies of work, how many complete bodies of works did Nas have? He had 2.

Dime: Ouch. I’m assuming you mean Illmatic and Life Is Good, but what about Stillmatic?
YG: Stillmatic wasn’t a complete body of work too me.

Dime: Oh come on Guru.
YG: That album reminded people of the old Nas. You gotta remember I’ve been with this thing forever. People be like, “Oh my god. Nas made a song about he’s a gun.” But Pharoahe Monch did that originally. Nas isn’t the first person to rap about that. This new generation be giving credit to people but they’ve never heard the Pharoahe Monch story. Nas is one of my greats. I definitely have him top 10, but top 5? He’s not better than Rakim. He’s not.

Dime: Who would you give the Kobe and LeBron to for this Hip-Hop generation?
YG: For Kobe – because Kobe had to come before Bron – the LeBron I would give to Kendrick [Lamar]. That’s probably Kendrick because he’s the new guy that when you see him, even in his high school stage, you were like, he’s a man amongst boys. When I first heard Kendrick – this is going back to “Overly Dedicated,” before “Section 80” – I was like, “Oh. Who is this kid?” I kind of got introduced to GBE through Jay Rock. Like Jay Rock was the first person I heard out of that camp that they were pushing. The only reason I clicked on a Kendrick song was because I knew he was down with this click. And then when I heard Kendrick, I knew this kid had everything. He got everything. I knew there was something special about this kid. I would give him the Lebron. Who’s the Kobe?

Dime: I have a feeling you might say Wayne.
YG: Ahh. I wouldn’t be mad at that. For the simple fact that he’s been in it long enough for No. 1. For No. 2, he was at one level and was so concerned with getting better, that he went through things like “Back that Thang Up”, “Bling Bling”, and all that to start doing mixtapes, and you could tell he was concerned with getting better. He was giving you songs where you could tell lyrically he was getting better. At that particular time, he was murdering his verses, his mixtapes and all other shit. I was like, “Oooh. He’s getting there.” He in fact, made Young/Cash Money, the best rap label ever because they’ve had the longest run ever. Baby and Slim have been here since ’99. They’ve had a longer run than Death Row, a longer run than Bad Boy, a longer run than Rocafella, a longer run than Murder Inc. You can’t name a label who had a better run than them. They’re still going. MMG still gotta come in. TDE still gotta come in Cash Money is still out here moving units. You can’t deny that they’ve had the longest run.

What do you think?

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