Since the sport’s acceptance into the mainstream, the mixed martial arts community has seen a wave of MMA documentaries — some good, some bad. Vlad Yudin has risen above both of these grades to make the first truly great MMA documentary in The Hurt Business, one that breaks free from what has become a cliché perspective on a dynamic and heartfelt sport.
We discussed what it was like to follow some of MMA’s biggest stars for a year, and the fallout surrounding the likes of Ronda Rousey and Jon Jones after his film was in the can.
How long have you been a fan of MMA?
Well, it’s interesting, because I think I was never really a fan of MMA. I never fully understood it. This film was kind of my exploration of a sport, and I got a chance to learn more and more as I was making it. Now I definitely watch MMA and definitely consider myself a fan.
Are you based in California?
Actually, New York. I go back and forth a lot between California and New York.
California is such a hotbed for MMA that it seems like, as a filmmaker, you’re almost surrounded by it and can’t get away from it.
For me, when I was spending a lot of time in California, I met a lot of people who were more into MMA than I was because it’s very prominent there, there’s a lot of gyms and stuff like that. So, I got a chance to learn about MMA a lot when I was spending time over there. But I think the film was really an exploration of the sport and it tells the story of where the sport came from, how it originated, and where it’s going. Of course, we focus on the specific athletes who compete in the sport. And my focus in filmmaking is really the behind-the-scenes access and to show what people go through emotionally. Obviously physically, but also emotionally, it’s a very big component of MMA. Right now I’m definitely very interested in MMA, I think it’s still controversial, as a sport. Even though it’s a growing sport, I still feel like it’s misunderstood, so I’m definitely interested in it a lot.
You’ve captured Jon Jones’ peak and ultimately, fall. As I was watching it, knowing what’s been happening, seeing what he was saying in the film seemed ironic knowing what’s coming. And you were actually able to capture the car crash and we saw what happened last April with him being stripped of the title. Now, with the positive test, how do you react as a filmmaker?
It’s crazy because you never know what’s gonna happen, right? Obviously, when the whole car accident thing was happening, it was super shocking because nobody can expect that and the suspension and the legal matters. But then this thing came when they took him off the card at UFC 200, that was another shock. So, I don’t even know what to expect anymore, not just for him, but for everybody. It’s a sport where a fighter can get injured or something can happen right before the fight. In MMA, I feel like way more than in boxing, people always blow out or get injured or something happens right before the fight, so it’s a really unpredictable sport. Now I’m ready for anything.
You sound like a veteran MMA fan now. For non-MMA fans, do you think this documentary will convert them?
I think what this film provided was a really in-depth look into the lives of fighters. I think it humanizes them, because when you see a fight or an MMA event, you see a certain aspect of it, you see the physical aspect of it, you see what they want you to see. In this film, we go way deeper and we got behind-the-scenes where it really shows the aspect of what they go through. I think it makes it more personal when you see a guy competing in a cage, and it can get pretty brutal and violent, you see one aspect to it, but then you see when he gets home and spends time with his family, what he or she does to get ready for a fight mentally, or what they go through when they get injured and can no longer compete, what that does to their lives. Obviously, it’s a career, but it’s so closely integrated into your life, so it’s much more than just a career. If you’re an MMA fan, you’ll be able to get that access to something you’ve never seen before. If you’re not a fan of MMA, then maybe it will get you into MMA or it might have an adverse reaction, you might not like it because, in the film, we really want to show both sides of things, it’s not just a glamour approach; we show the good and the bad.
As a documentarian, how difficult is it for you to see the lowest of the lows?
It can get emotional, you know? It can get very emotional. One of the fighters we follow in the film, Rashad Evans, who was the champion of the UFC in the light heavyweight division, and he got injured, a torn ACL, a knee injury, and it was tough to see what he was going through as he was going through recovery. It’s tough for him, obviously, because it’s his life, it’s his career, his family is affected by it, but myself, as a filmmaker, I had to be unbiased and I had to just observe and create the best possible storyline for the people to see. It’s very emotional and it’s challenging because you definitely grow closer to people, but I obviously have a job to do and my job is to make the best possible film. So yeah, it can get very complex in things.
Especially with Gary Goodridge.
Yes.
You hear things, and I was actually happy to see him doing as well as he was because he was doing quite poorly a few years ago.
Yeah, very sad what happened to him. That’s one of the sides to MMA, certain athletes, after they retire, they suffer a lot of injuries, and they’re not as they used to be, of course. It’s sad.
Is there anyone that you wanted to talk with or get footage of that you couldn’t?
Great question. We were lucky enough to really get everybody who I think was important to film. MMA is growing, every year you get new fighters coming in and, unlike boxing, it seems like the champions, of course there are some dominant ones, they stay for a while, but I feel like in this sport specifically, anything can happen in the blink of an eye. You can see what’s happening to the women’s division, with the new champion right now, she just won. The same thing is happening to the men’s division, it’s ever-changing, always. I think when we were filming, I think we got everyone important to the storyline. On top of that, there are so many fighters, you just can’t get them all, the film would’ve been over five hours long or longer, even.
You captured a very specific moment in time here. Ronda was still the champion and in less than a year, you’ve seen the bantamweight title change three times. Does that frustrate you or does that add to the film?
No, I wanted the film to be timeless. You know, there are always going to be new champions, there are always going to be new fighters coming in, but the story in the film, it can happen to anybody. Injuries can happen to anybody, anybody can become a champion, really. I wanted to show universal stories and I wanted it to be timeless. If you see this next year or two years from now, of course the sport is evolving, but the principles of it are still going to be similar. Whether it’s Ronda Rousey or Jon Jones or whoever is going to replace them, it’s still going to be similar stories and I think the film depicts those stories that I wanted to highlight in the sport overall. And of course, you know, the history of MMA; how it started, where it came from, that’s always going to be there. That’s how the sport evolved, that’s where it came from. I’m hoping and I strongly feel like this film is going to be timeless in that regard.
Don Frye. He’s quite the guy to speak to.
Very opinionated, very outspoken, I enjoyed talking to him. He’s like The Man, you know? He’ll say what’s on his mind, he doesn’t really care about political correctness, he doesn’t really care too much about what people think about his opinions. It was a long interview that we did for the film, you get to see some parts of it in the film. I think he has a very simple approach to things, which makes it fun.
Will we be seeing any of these interviews extended?
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of deleted scenes, a lot of extended interviews. We did very long interviews, and there’s only so much you can show in the actual film, but definitely look forward to a lot of extra content.
How difficult was it to get so much footage from the UFC?
There are ways of doing it. Documentary filmmakers know that there are certain ways you have to go about doing that. It’s just part of the business. Every business has its own intricacies and certain things you have to do to achieve certain things. In documentary filmmaking, getting footage and using footage the right way is just part of the craft.
Were there any unique challenges in this film?
The challenge for me was to really kind of understand MMA from the very beginning, to put it all in perspective because it was a brand new sport for me to explore on that level. Obviously, I knew what MMA was, but to really understand the divisions, the different promotions that exist, the different fighters, who they were, getting to know a lot of the fighters. Just getting a grasp of things, to me that was the challenge. The second challenge, of course, when you first get into the sport and you start filming and directing people is to get a certain level of trust. Especially when you follow a character and you’re portraying them in the film, there’s a certain level of trust to achieve. But once that legwork is done and once you get in there, the other biggest challenge is to edit the film. This film, the biggest challenge was to balance the film that captures all these different characters that compete in all these different promotions, different weight classes, different divisions, just to combine it all into one film. That was the challenge in editing, of course.
What are your techniques to establish trust?
I don’t know if to say that it’s just a specific skill or if it’s developed over years or whether it’s just something that happens. I don’t sit there and think of a strategy to get somebody to trust me, I think it just sort of happens. Maybe it’s just a natural thing, you know? But basically just spending time with people and interacting with people, that’s kind of the groundwork I was talking about. Just explaining my vision for the film, understanding what their concerns are, that builds trust, I think, in a relatively short amount of time.