Initially this was just supposed to be a puff piece: one of those image-centric, easy to write-easy to read listicles that everybody says they hate but just can’t stop themselves from reading. But, you know, I’m me, and I’m really truly terrible when it comes to distilling things I’m passionate about into tiny blurbs. The thing is, it’s very easy to fantasy book existing rosters, especially if you’re me and you just want everything to turn into wacky road trip adventures and eighties-style teen movie-meets-Rodney Dangerfield shenanigans without the misogyny and unfortunate racist bents. Everybody has their ideas about what would ‘fix’ what they see as being wrong with any wrestling company, and you’re lying if you say you don’t have an opinion on what you wish wrestling could do to be better. All of these things lead to a very sad truth when it comes to women in WWE: we’re not going to get what we want.
If you’ve been paying attention to recent signings, or Brandon’s Best and Worst of NXT columns (you should, they’re great), you can see a growing trend in the kind of future we’re to have, and it’s covered in glitter and the canonical height of Hello Kitty (three apples, for those of us who aren’t my friend Chris Sims). When you start to realistically think about women who could potentially work in NXT and eventually go on to graduate to the hellscape that is the main roster, it mutates your brain into this unexpectedly hypercritical monster. Looking at women through the WWE lens proves more than anything just how flawed that view is.
Go ahead and try it. Think long and hard about the women you love to watch wrestle, and then put them into the context of televised wrestling. Ignore, for a moment, their actual wrestling talent; I think we’ve seen beyond a shadow of a doubt that’s not what gets you there. It’s easier when you realize just how irrelevant that is, whether it’s because of the track record of women not being given a chance to really wrestle, or the very real examples of women starting out slow, then working hard and forcing themselves into the NXT spotlight. Starting green and training and improving isn’t a bad thing – quite the opposite, in fact. But you really have to think long and hard about where they’re training to go.
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Well done, Danielle.
I dunno, in the same way we all hope the old man gives up the crown so HHH can fix Raw, I want to believe it also means Stephanie fixes the women’s roster. Unless she’s happy being the sole woman on the show who has any complexity.
Also, think you meant John Belushi, not his slightly less talented but much more alive brother Jim.
Jim was actually part of the SNL crew for a short time.
Yeah it was John who said that. Jim was never beloved. But he is also pretty misogynistic. Probably to a worse extent.
And he’s MUCH less talented.
Haha, thanks. I am running on two hours of sleep and two cups of coffee, and my brain instinctively assumes that Jim is the one I am disappointed in.
Jim Belushi is talented?
Has there been any indication that Stephanie gives a shit about the women’s division?
She soaks in the adulation in the ring at NXT as much as HHH does.
*applause*
Another awesome, passionate piece of writing, amiga.
Excellent piece, D.
The worst “Diva” I can think off would be Nikki Bella without the wrestling talent, sooo… Brie? I think we found her, guys.
Eva Marie?
“Nikki before she was a HOSS, so, Brie?” was my first thought as well. Heh.
then I also thought Natalya before she associated herself with Tyson and Cesaro and when she isn’t allowed to show her talents or when she stumbles around herself.
To repeat something I posted in one of the B&W threads: the problem with #GiveDivasAChance is that it became solely about time and not characterisation, storylines or pretty much any of the above. (And needless to say, turning that very hashtagged phrase into a Bella heat tactic is hopelessly counterproductive, especially as it seems Nikki’s going to come away from WM with the title so in a failure of basic storytelling the heel bullies won)
Let’s be honest, it’s only been three weeks and this division (this company, frankly) is going to take a lot longer than that to come around on detailed characters or quality storytelling. For how little into it we are, time and a move away from “us vs them, so-called real wrestlers vs models” storytelling to what can be simplified as “good guys vs bad guys” is a step forward, even if small.
I get it, I think.
In theory, AJ vs. Nikki Bella matches should be AMAZING. It’s figuratively and literally Lady Cena vs. Lady Punk. Nikki’s the girl who’s there because of her looks, doing what the boss tells her to do without complaints, etc. etc. AJ represents the love of a business that’s been poisoned by this “we do not care about ‘wrestling'” idea that’s permeated throughout the company. It’s the easiest to tell story on the planet.
Instead, there’s nothing. They just don’t like each other. They wrestle perfectly fine matches, but it’s going through the motions. AJ’s been doing that since July, and while Nikki has been pretty great, she’s not an ace at getting a story across. Even Bayley and Becky Lynch’s last match had more of a point behind it: Becky’s gotten a bit of an ego and blames Bayley for losing the Fatal-4-Way, Bayley’s all “what the fudgecakes?” (because she doesn’t swear because she’s wonderful) and boom. Match.
It’s going to be so depressing to see these girls thrown into molds. Sasha will be dancing along with Cameron within a few months (she’s already teaming with her in house shows). Becky will be Her-nswaggle. Bayley will either be Female Eugene, or, somehow even worse than that, Vince will notice her butt and make her twerk. That’s the mindset. Girls have to fit a mold, and if they don’t, we either make them fit one by force, or they get zero TV time. And until that mindset changes, there will be no change in the Divas on the main roster. Even if they got an hour.
@Dave M J Everyone in the WWE has to fit a mold. That’s how the WWE generally works.
And that’s the problem. Molds suck now. Everyone feels manufactured, corporate, and bland. There’s nothing that feels genuine anymore. It’s not even about being original, it’s about not being a robot.
Basically it’s “how can we position them on Total Divas?” This is the darkest timeline.
WWE and respecting diversity go together like kitty litter and a cold pizza.
Nothing will change while Vince McMahon is in charge.
Yeah, they hate diversity. That’s why Dwayne Johnson left, they never gave him a fair shake.
Name any kayfabe wrestler, male or female, who seems like an aspirational character.
Got one? You probably just named a lower midcard heel. This isn’t a male/female issue – all of the characters intended to be heroic are portrayed as unlikeably as possible. Cena is an infantile attention whore, Reigns & Sheamus bullies convinced they’re underdogs, D-Bry is given whining sarcasm as his primary dialogue, Ziggler a pompous underachiever, Ambrose & Orton are untrustworthy psychopaths…
WWE likes the Rock/Trish model for its top wrestlers. That’s a ceiling for Neville as much as it is for Bailey. It’s not “any guy” and the bombshell woman. There’s a reason Bryant is in the ladder clusterfrick and Reigns is in the main event, and it sure isn’t talent or popularity.
Oh, and to your t-shirt gripe, babyface AJ had t-shirts celebrating crazy chicks. Sold well, too.
I was gonna say the announcers always berated her for being crazy, but they do that for Ambrose too, so I guess it’s more of an announcing problem than a gender problem.
Or you know, maybe a woman can write about how she feels about issues with women without guys dismissing it and needing it to be about them too.
@JettMartinez
Danielle’s certainly entitled to write what she feels. But the notion that the only reaction that a guy should be able to have is “The person with the vagina is so wise and important and I can’t argue because of that vagina” is counterproductive, overprotective, and awful. I suppose “Jezebel stupid” would be the most apt phrase.
Moreover, perceived disparate treatment is a central theme of the column.
Also, I would still argue that Bryan is a relatively aspirational character.
There are plenty of aspirational male wrestlers, that doesn’t require them to be flawless. (Although John Cena is presented almost literally as Superman. Sure, he comes of as a fussy toddler who will just break everyone’s toys if he can’t have them, but that isn’t how the WWE views him.)
John Cena, Daniel Bryan, Roman Reigns, Dolph Ziggler, Brock Lesner, Randy Orton and many other of the men are all presented as aspirational characters, as was The Rock and Steve Austin. Sure, they weren’t always flawless, but the were allowed to be cool, determined, to push themselves to prove they were worthy.
Daniel Bryan main evented Wrestlemania while having a character that is essentially “I love wrestling, it was the thing I was put on this earth to do, and I will work hard enough to prove that I can be the very best at it. Regardless of that fact that he should be possitioned higher on the card, he still gets to be awesome.
The WWE is certainly filled with poorly written, two dimensional characters. They even attempt to ruin those that get over in spite of that. But it’s in no way accurate to claim that how poorly it handles its women’s division is the equivalent to how it handles everyone else.
You’re stretching very far, no one said anything about flawless, she’s talking about inspirational, DBry is very inspirational, the negative you spoke about him was a serious reach
If Bryan qualifies, wasn’t AJ Lee sold as inspirational for a good portion of her career?
Austin has spent a lot of time talking about what an excellent job Jim Ross did of getting him over. The idea was that the announcers can improve a person’s position not just by saying “he’s awesome, look how awesome he is” (Roman Reigns/Jon Cena) but also by positioning the character’s relationship with the fans as something special that is outside the understanding of the announcers (Punk/Austin).
That’s the part Danielle needed to establish somewhere here. If you want to do an article about the difference between the way the men and the women are treated, you probably should establish the difference between the way the men and women are treated. There’s four pages here but it never happens.
I’m not even saying that Matheson’s wrong here, it just feels like there’s maybe couple of good articles that she could have wrote here (“Here’s Why Certain Females Will or Won’t Work on the WWE Main Roster”) and we kind of just got a paint by numbers piece about the importance of diversity. I know that she has a stronger understanding of wrestling (and particularly the women’s independent scene) than comes through here but I just don’t see anything here.
Part of it might be that I just don’t agree with Danielle much. Sasha’s very, very good at selling and is a ton of fun to watch but might be in that weird situation where her best attribute in the ring is a babyface quality (selling) and she’s better at promos and portraying a heel otherwise (think Shane Douglas or Dolph Ziggler), Charlotte still strikes me as very, very raw on the mic and in the ring. Bayley’s put together a very likable character that is a natural fit for a lot of story lines but she doesn’t have a particularly believable offence. I like watching the NXT women’s division too, but I get the sense that Danielle rates those matches much, much higher than I do. As for the bodybuilder types not getting much of a chance in the WWE, Chyna and Beth Phoenix were both heavily pushed (admittedly, Beth’s push was abandoned).
Again, I could be convinced otherwise but this article just sort of assumes things that I don’t think are true without ever actually getting to a point. There’s a bit here about how a list didn’t really fit but instead we get one sentence blurbs and name drops of a bunch of wrestlers. I kind of end up with the same feeling about this article that I think Danielle gets about the WWE women’s division: There’s something really entertaining that could have been here that just didn’t happen and I’m not sure that there’s a logical reason why it didn’t.
Even if your mansplaining premise were true, and men were all one-dimensional gimmicks of hte same mold, those one-dimensional gimmicks get a chance to headline WrestleMania, hell, any PPV, hell, a fucking episode of RAW on a regular basis. Do women?
@TH Do you think that might be something that should be covered in the article? Does NXT regularly put women in the main event of their T.V. shows or (especially) their Live Event Specials? Are there legitimate reasons why men might main event more Raws and PPV’s then women in the WWE? Simply ignoring the facts you don’t like because you’re eager to shout “The WWE is sexist” is laughable.
I get that there’s a segment of the internet that thinks that the most important question they should consider when deciding whether to agree with someone is whether or not that person has a vagina. I also get that there’s a good article somewhere in all of this information. I don’t think that article occurred here.
Also, mansplaining is a word used by femoters.
Thank you for the link to that Kimber Lee doc on YouTube! I got to see her for the first time at Inspire Pro in Jan and she was awesome.
There should be a giant button that launches the rocket that sends the Raw announce team to the sun. That way everyone can help push it.
I’d even download the app for that.
This is the most interesting problem in pro wrestling for me. There’s still an outside chance
that unhappy fans moving to one of the other increasingly available options will force WWE to increase the overall quality of its product in a relatively short period of time, but there’s no similar path that I can see that would raise the level of women’s wrestling (and the treatment of women in general) to where it should be.
The WWE audience at large has been kinda following along with general smark opinion regarding the male wrestlers, but there’s nowhere near the same level of support from casual fans for better women’s wrestling. It’s probably going to be a long, slow process if it happens at all, and the longer it goes on the less I want to support an industry with such ridiculous inequality on top of all the other problems.
I just came here to agree on how fantastic Bitch Planet is. that’s a good comic right there..
Same here, great read
Smurfs are three apples tall. Hello Kitty is five apples tall and weighs three apples.
+1
The main roster women’s division is like if every female character on Game of Thrones had the characterization options of Season 1 Sansa or Melisandra (except just the getting naked and sleeping with people part, not the manipulative position of power part) but were all discussed like they’re Cersei. Would GoT even be half as good or popular like that? Yet WWE seems convinced it’s smart business.
So you’re absolutely right Danielle, the potential for improvement by just featuring diverse female characters the way ACTUALLY popular and culturally relevant properties feature female characters is staggering and I have to stay optimistic that we’ll see it. Or else we’ll be watching Raw live from the Impact Zone as Carmella makes forehead L’s at Eva Marie.
Good summation.
“Game of Thrones? WHAT IS THAT? ONLY NERDS WATCH THAT, NERD!. . . Now excuse me as I talk about Frodo. . .”
–Michael Cole during a great match not being called–
The most popular GoT characters are a little dude and a WOMAN. WWE has no idea how to promote either of those groups, and has no respect for them either.
Great column.
Perfect? No.
But still quite accurate and very, very well said.
I think Sasha will be the litmus test for the future of the WWE women’s division. If they just take her as is, put her on RAW, and let her be THE BOSS, there’s hope. If she ends up “bad girl” strutting to the ring alongside Cameron and Eva Marie for a 2-minute 6-woman tag match, then there is no future for women’s wrestling in WWE as long as Vince is in charge.
Obviously WWE has a problem with creating likable characters of any gender but I think the bigger issue is presentation. When are the women allowed to do stuff that is legitimately impressive? I’m not just talking about portrayals of athleticism or brutality (though I’ll get to that later) but instead in any way get to act in a superhuman way? We want babyfaces that we aspire to be, that we want to be, and I think if you do it right, it can transcend gender. You don’t have to be a man to think Batman is cool, nor do you have to be female to want to be as badass as Ellen Ripley.
I have my problems with the Black Widow character, but she gets to do stuff that’s presented as just as essential as what the rest of the Avengers do. And she does things that they can’t. She tricks Tony Stark and Loki, nobody else can say they’ve done that.
In WWE, when are women ever given “Holy Shit” spots? Roman Reigns spears people through walls. Cena Attitude Adjusts to people at the same time. Randy Orton takes out 7 people in as many seconds. Adrian Neville’s Red Arrow is presented as an INSTANT DEATH CRITICAL finisher that is sold as the most amazing piece of athleticism the announcers have ever seen. Regardless of everything else, their characters, their actions, those four guys are presented as being capable of doing physical marvels that nobody else can.
And of course you can’t translate this perfectly over to women. Men have more upper body strength than women, it’s biology. Nikki Bella will never have the same pound-for-pound strength as Cesaro. That’s not how bodies work. But people still pay attention to women’s sports. Ronda Rousey is the biggest MMA draw in the WORLD. Women’s athleticism can be presented in a way that’s equivocal to men.
Remember when AJ first pulled off the Black Widow (or THE OCTOPUS!) and it got Cole to shut up and call the fucking match? Remember how it still gets a pop out of the crowd because it’s something that nobody else does? When Charlotte stuck a moonsault and transitioned into a somersault senton the crowd went nuts because NOBODY ELSE does that. Nobody else can do that.
Women in WWE rarely get to be portrayed as world-class athletes. They don’t even get to look good in the ENTERTAINMENT part of Sports Entertainment. AJ got to pull one over on Punk and Bryan and rode that wave of popularity for the rest of her career. AJ’s Total Divas Pipebomb inspired how much fantasy booking? I know I keep using AJ, but AJ was/is over. Quite over. She’s my example because she’s conclusive proof that the crowds are willing to take women seriously on a big stage if you give them the opportunity. AJ sells t-shirts. A fair amount too, given by what you see in the crowd. But instead they’d rather have…semi-mobile sex dolls? I don’t know what WWE is going for.
And yes, sexuality is important because guess what? We want to be sexy. Men don’t just want to be James Bond because he saves the day. James Bond is sexy and has sex with sexy women. We want our idols and vicarious characters of fiction to embody the things we want to be. Maybe the ‘no homo’ crowd will come through and complain, but for me, given everything else being the same, in a work of escapist fantasy the more attractive character is easier to “escape” into. I’m sure women feel the same way.
WWE thinks that we’ll cheer the women we want to be with. I think, we’ll cheer the women we want to be.
“WWE thinks that we’ll cheer the women we want to be with. I think, we’ll cheer the women we want to be.”
This. So much this.
+1.
+100
This is a very interesting piece, but I think there are two separate issues here.
Is there awesome women’s wrestling that should be showcased in a much bigger and better light? Absolutely. I went to a NXT house show this weekend, cheered like mad for my favorites: Bayley and Becky. Even bought a Bayley slap bracelet on my way out. FYI: I’m a 36 year old male. They absolutely deserve a shot on the main roster and will hopefully get to be exactly what they are now once they get there.
But I believe Danielle’s hypothesis that the WWE “can’t afford” not to develop powerful/relatable women’s characters is off base. There may be no better role models for athletic young girls than the ladies of the WNBA and those crowds are sparse and TV ratings are low. The NFL touts that more women then men watch their games, and their track record this past season in regards to how their players treat women was well documented.
Maybe for you, Danielle, they need powerful females, but I’m not sure that’s the case for the majority of the population. Who are the strong females on Big Bang Theory, NCIS, and Sunday Night Football – the three most watched shows of 2014? Sure, it would be nice if Bayley could be seen by a bigger audience (watching the reactions of little girls towards Bailey at the NXT house shows is heart warming), but I don’t think not having that on the main roster is something the WWE “can’t afford” to do. Business models of other sports and entertainment entities are proving that.
With that said, I hope you’re right and I hope I’m wrong. I feel bad placing the pressure on the current NXT’ers, but it certainly does feel like they’re our only hope.
I was going to let this go, because usually this kind of comment doesn’t need any rebuttal to point out how ridiculous it is, but you’re using a flawed example and I need you to understand why.
I may not watch the Big Bang Theory because the few minutes I have seen of a few episodes were complete and utter garbage, but portraying females in the STEM fields in a postive and equalizing light? Strong females.
NCIS, your second go-to, featured Ziya, a incredibly smart ex-IDF agent proficient with weapons and krav maga who speaks multiple languages and is a strong POC female character, and Jenny Shepard, a former colonel who worked as an NCIS and FBI agent before becoming Director of NCIS. There was Ellie (the data freak), alt-girl forensic/STEM super genius Abby who builds volunteers to build houses for the homeless and is the daughter of two deaf parents, also bringing ASL into an on-screen role. There are numerous other military personnel, tech experts, and women in professions that require either physical or mental excellence. I don’t need to google these things because I remember them *because these characters are important.*
But you’re right. You’ve got me on all of those weak-ass lady NFL players.
Yeah, NCIS is a bad example.
But the nature of the Big Bang Theory is everyone is presented as having major (and cartoonish) flaws. The WWE has one of the two “boss” characters and a whole bunch of women in the “non-traditional” role of fighting each other.
It’s just that I think @Clever Pun makes a solid point here. There are very successful shows that don’t present women in powerful roles. I don’t think that means that the WWE should follow that model. It does make me nervous when people don’t acknowledge that there are shows that succeed even though they’re doing the thing the WWE “can’t afford” to do.
Danielle seems to have taken Clever Pun’s comment as a personal attack, or ‘wrong because he disagreed,’ or something. That’s why I (usually) avoid her articles, and the comment section. It always becomes a collection of arguments, and even innocuous comments can be taken badly.
Since I’ll probably be accused of “mansplaining,” I’ll check out now.
I think this is almost a chicken or the egg moment. Women who watch TV watch the programs given to them. If those programs don’t have strong women, is that necessarily the fault of the audience?
I am a feminist. I still watch TV. I crave, without a shadow of a doubt, true, strong women in the shows that I watch, but it is rarely delivered upon. Short of writing every broadcast network and telling them of my desire, what else is there to do? We have what we have because we’ve been told here it is and like it. I would wager this is more of a reflection of society than anything – strong women are absent because, as a society, women are still thought of as weak, less-than, and generally objectified.
This isn’t saying that the men here are thinking to themselves, “Shut up and get me a sandwich, Rod Stewart,” but more a commentary on the truth-mirror on our society that our forms of entertainment are.
NCIS was one of the most watched shows of 2014? The low-rent CSI? Really? WTF America… WTF…. But that kind of speaks volumes about why there is so much garbage on TV (and Raw), it seems to be what the masses want to watch (Big Bang Theory!). I will take an All Japan Women feud from the 90’s over anything the WWE is pushing now. No contest, not even close.
Just wanted to pile in on the “good jobs, Danielle.” This was great stuff. So, uh…. good job. *swish*
This was a good read. Thanks.
Thats how you drop a mic…..
Admittedly, it might be a Hot Take following, I know, but:,
the biggest problem with this issue is that women’s wrestling HAD its chance to be truly saved in the future- and every fanbase- both male and female- took the potential savior for granted, and by the time it abruptly ended, no one even had an outcry. No one was there to really look at how much of a pioneer they were, no one cared enough to see that it was as close to a good view of positive representation and really helping crack the doors down that women’s wrestling needed. Even though the rise of women’s wrestling, and wanting equal representation for the division, was rising, no one cared enough to shed a tear when it happened.
It is hard issue to hear- but the last person who truly had the chance to save women’s wrestling and provide that representation?
It wasn’t top stars like AJ Lee or Paige.
It isn’t Charlotte, or Sasha Banks, or Bayley, or Becky Lynch.
And in other promotions doing women’s wrestling well recently? It isn’t even Sexy Star or Ivelesse, no matter how well they can assimilate.
Heck, go to the more indy promotions willing to book women? Whatever woman you choose- she WAS NOT the potential savior of women’s wrestling.
The last person who truly had the chance to save women’s wrestling- was Vickie Guerrero.
Yes, Vickie Guerrero. One of the most hated characters in WWE- maligned not just for her being a heel character, but being seen as inept as a performer. She didn’t have the same acting ability even other WWE superstars (who aren’t exactly the second coming of Laurence Olivier or Meryl Streep themselves) had, she had no actual in-ring ability to speak of- and indeed only wrestled a couple matches, most of which were for comedy. By and large, Vickie Guerrero was seen as awful, and only people having the positive viewpoint of the story of why she was onscreen allowed people to accept it as part of the show.
Yet, in retrospect- if you look back at Vickie Guerrero, her push was EVERYTHING that could be wanted to truly add more equal representation, and help be a savior to the show. In Vickie Guerrero, you had a woman who was not a trained superstar, was not a trained actress, and had all the training of…well, the widow of a popular wrestler who never had any inclination to give wrestling a try herself, but who was brought onscreen in an attempt to help her family following that wrestler’s untimely passing. She ended up getting to be a heat magnet during her career.
However what made her more of a success was: Vickie Guerrero was an older woman, who didn’t have the Playboy Playmate “look” that WWE covets (and the reason- said flat out- that people in those other promotions like Sexy Star, got turned down by the WWE when they had their chance to lock her up.) She didn’t have the look that WWE demands from their Divas, and in addition to not having that look, in a time period where the women’s independent circuit was starting to catch fire and people were hungry for standout indy women as well on their screen, Vickie didn’t even know a wristlock from a wristwatch (so hardcore fans wouldn’t look past that weakness and see to her in-ring talent, like they did in TNA for women who didn’t fit the mold like Awesome Kong or ODB.)
Yet despite those things, most of Vickie Guerrero’s run on WWE television had her as a strong general manager for a number of brands- but in addition, she was also seen as a very sexual being who pursued male superstars, and had those male superstars equally willing to pursue HER in turn, despite her not having the same look as the regular Divas. Even with it, the announce team- not even heel announcers like Michael Cole, but announcers like Josh Mathews who were ostensibly a babyface- were selling Vickie as the cougar of the WWE and the most beautiful Diva in the company. The only announcer who would not was Jerry Lawler, and there were as many times when those claims blew up in his face as they did beforehand.
These are some important issues as well. Giving strong characters to people like the NXT Divas, or the Lucha Underground women and exoticos, are a great start. But you won’t truly change the world of women’s wrestling with women like Sasha Banks or Bayley. You won’t even change the world of women’s wrestling with women like Awesome Kong. You’ll change the world of women’s wrestling with more women like Vickie Guerrero.
+1, this is a hot take (plus The Cougar was mostly a hit around these parts)
Eventually even my fiance, who is a casual viewer at best (and loathed Vickie immediately), was really sad to see her go. I think this is a great and very interesting point of view, and I hope a good number of people get to read it.
You’re right and wrong. Most mainstream viewers change every seven or so years. Believe it or not, Withleather is more the exception than the normal. So, in a way, you’re right, as last generation’s great woman hype should have led to something greater.
But you’re wrong because we’re in a new generation of viewers and we’ve got some great wrestling talent on the roster. It’s time to use that talent for good and make women’s wrestling a thing again and keep its momentum.
Smart points. +1
I’m not going to continue worrying or even reading anymore letters and words and thoughts about this subject, because it’s become even more run down than any Community coverage on this site, but who are we to fucking care? Do we care about WWE’s Divas “respect” or something?
If they wanted better matches, they wouldn’t have signed with this company. But since they are normal human beings and can be paid lots and lots more, they took this job. So, maybe, no more words about this asinine subjects and more words about crazy Impact reviews and how we armchair QB Raw to make it better.
You cared enough to comment about how you don’t care.
Somebody needs a nap.
The WWE treats objects like women, man.
Why the hate for Alexa Bliss?
Cause aside from the glitter and rad entrance music, she’s not all that good. Check last night’s NXT from Columbus. Notice the camera keeps cutting to a different angle every time she lands a strike. That’s not an accident.
They do that with the men, too, typically when they’re either not connecting or if it looks particularly weak.
Case in point, look at the the match between Cass and Blake. Mr. Dubstep takes advantage and goes for a rest hold, but the transition is awkward as hell, so the camera cuts away to something else and then returns to the ring once Blake has the hold applied.
Because she’s green as goose shit, pretty and will be pushed further and harder than the rest of the WS darlings. Expect the moral outrage.
Not valid reasons for hating her. She’s developing in developmental.
Never in my life have I ever said that I hated Alexa Bliss, bro
Oh, I know, Danielle- it was just a layup for people that DO to post dumb raisins as to why they do.
Yeah there’s no hate for Blissy, and there shouldn’t be. She’s constantly working her tail off trying not to rest on her pretty laurels. She’s going out there and slamming her face into walls and trying to make a forearm from a tiny pixie look brutal and doing some impressive flips…can’t hate that. The problem is that we’re all kinda worried that WWE will make her the next big thing solely because she’s what they think wrestling fans want in a lady: pretty, kind of a blank slate in a personality (compared to The Boss and Bayley) and easy to mold into what they want. But the girl herself is pretty cool, albeit still a bit green.
I want literal Sleater Kinney in WWE.
Well said, Danielle. Well said. Thank you for this.
I’m afraid I didn’t quite get the point of this article. Is it “the future for women in WWE isn’t good unless change happens?”
I mean, yes. Pantsless Vince and Bucky Russo need to go. The announce team on the main roster needs to be fired (though getting rid of Vince would fix them, too, but symbolically, they need to be gone).
But this article doesn’t really go into that.
The article praises Sasha and Bailey and Chaorlotte…seems to not like Alexa.
Makes strange comments about seeing Shimmer….(Which I’ve never seen, so maybe I’d understasnd that part if I did?).
Is it that WWE wants pretty people? Well yes. It’s a billion dollar entertainment company….they want pretty people, just like every entertainment company does..just like every company does..and just like every person does. Is it fair? no..it’s life though.
Is this just another “why is Roman being pushed above Daniel” article, disguised as a women’s issue article?
Was it, WWE should hire women who look different? I mean, Emma doesn’t have the same body type as Paige who doesn’t have the same body type as Summer who doesn’t have the same body type as AJ who doesn’t have the same body type as Charlotte who doesn’t have the same body type as Sasha who doesn’t have the same body type as Bailey who doesn’t have the same body type as Alexa who doesn’t have the same body type as Dana Brooke’s who’s now being promoted as coming soon. I mean, yeah, none of them are big fat women, but is that so unexpected?
That is the question, though. Why CAN’T there be one or two big fat women in the company as well- whether it is WWE, or even the indies?
The bigger difference between the men’s division and the women’s division is that- yes, WWE does want the look for their male superstars as well (just see the Reigns vs. Bryan issue as well.) However, with WWE- not everyone has to look like a Roman Reigns to get a chance in the WWE…and it doesn’t even have to be people as talented as aesthetically flawed male performers like Daniel Bryan or Kevin Owens to get a fair chance in the WWE. They’ll be willing to give who have flawed looks and are not world-class performers like, say, a Bull Dempsey as much of a chance to succeed as them.
Now, compare it to the other side and just what we see on NXT as well. At the moment, it’s clear one of the most over Divas in NXT is Blue Pants. However, the big issue there is- all signs right now, and for the last few months when she got so surprisingly over, is that Leva Bates is NOT under a WWE contract. Even if Bates has a very big positive on her side (the…uh…”she may be either the first or second-most over Diva on NXT” thing), Bates has a few flaws in the WWE’s mind (she’s far older than WWE likes to sign women at 32 years old, and she looks like a “conventionally” attractive woman, not a Playmate)- and because of these weaknesses, WWE has apparently not signed Bates and apparently has no interest in ever signing Bates to an exclusive deal. (Considering that NXT tapes in Orlando, Florida, the same city as Impact, and Bates is based in Orlando already…there’s a very big issue.)
Whether or not women have different body types or “just” wants pretty people is to the fans’ question- but when WWE is so desperate to make sure all of their Divas fit one, very specific mold, that the WWE is truly willing to let one of the most over Divas on NXT be legally able to drive down to the Impact Zone and sign a contract with TNA, one of WWE’s biggest competitors, without locking her up- solely because even if she’s “Pretty”, she’s not pretty ENOUGH…THAT is a VERY BIG problem.
How many big fat female wrestlers are out there that are any good?
Kharma was very well treated by WWE (for a woman) before her dismissal.
And before that was Bertha Faye…which…yeah…
The big answer to that: Does it MATTER if they’re not immediately any good or not? Kharma was well treated by WWE, and Bertha Faye- even though she wasn’t well-treated at all, was so long ago that comparing her to women like Kharma would be roughly the same as using Adrian Adonis as an example for why WWE can’t be respectful to Darren Young.
The bigger point is more in developing- again. A woman like Kharma, who was one of the best female wrestlers on the planet when she signed with WWE- and likely WAS only signed due to being so great and so over WWE had no choice but to sign her, to boot- could sign even with her not having “the look”…but then, people who don’t have the look “can” get signed anyway if they’re THAT good.
However, the bigger issue is that- if a male wrestler doesn’t have “the look”, WWE will sign them to train them to become a better wrestler and be a star. If there’s a big fat male wrestler, or an ugly male wrestler, or a smaller male wrestler, WWE would sign them and train them to become better- or at least good enough for television.
By contrast- If a female wrestler doesn’t have “the look”, WWE won’t touch them with a 10-foot pole unless they don’t really have a choice but to sign them (and the only way to get there usually requires them to be at “Best in the World”-level talent to get there.) They won’t even dream of training a female wrestler who doesn’t look like a Playmate from the ground up, which is a bigger issue- if there’s none who are immediately good, then you train them and make them better.
This was an especially interesting read, top notch stuff Danielle.
Different title same article as always. I knew it wasn’t long until she morphed the best and worst of impact to 4 pages of rants.
Bazinga
Don’t forget the part where she says shes vegan for no reason other than to tell us she’s vegan
Different titles, same comments as always. I knew it wasn’t long before these guys morphed shitty misogyny into facile, shallow potshots at the content that don’t really address the content.
Not liking the writing by a female equals misogyny as much not liking Israeli politics equals antisemitism as much as not liking the journalism of Glenn Greenwald equals homophobia.
Honestly,what will help women in WWE the most is the same thing that will help the company itself,Vince stepping down.
“But none of these things we love are what they were supposed to be….We love what we have, but what we have was never supposed to happen.”
I don’t really understand. What were the women of NXT supposed to be? And if you love who they are & what they’re doing, does it really matter if they’re not what you think they’re supposed to be? Whatever that is?
If you don’t enjoy something on a wrestling show, it’s natural to shift into armchair booking mode & think of ways it could be better. But if you’re enjoying something to the point of saying that you love it & yet you’re somehow still disappointed by it, then are you really enjoying it?
@Danielle: One thing about social movements is that they’re incredibly weak. They’re weak because as someone as a trend becomes viral, it splits off into 10 different directions and then fizzles out because the supporters have spread out too far.
While I agree with you in principle, I see your idea more like step 3 of revitalizing the Women’s division on the main roster. What you wrote is incredibly important, but, all thoughts and effort should still be formed to giving women more time on Raw. And ideally with people who actually want to be there. Because while what you said is important, none of it will matter if we still continue to get 1:15 of wrestling that ends in a roll-up.
I would agree with this. Step 1: foot in the door, longer matches, Step 2: half and leg and an arm, character development, Step 3: full body, diversity.
“We love what we have, but what we have was never supposed to happen.” This is one of the best lines I think I’ve ever read by anyone, Danielle. Because it is a truism about life.
Good, powerful stuff again, lady. Keep up the good work.
I have never commented but i had to register just to comment on this article. My youngest daughter over the past year has become a huge wrestling fan. I remember when I was a kid the characters were these over the top awesome superheroes. I want her to have those women there for her. . she loves Shimmer and Shine and loves the divas but she also loves the guys like any teen girl would. But she loves her favorites to win. When she plays WWE2k14 AJ Lee has never lost as well as Roman Reigns and the former members of SHIELD. But I have digressed.
I registered because this was one of the best articles ever written on here. WWE could take this and make so much. Just well done. Well said!
My phone is dying but I want to read this because you write so well, Danielle. But what makes me optimistic is that while the cupboard seems pretty bare for WWE quality male wrestlers (ACH, Adam Cole…. Yeah) it seems like there is just a crazy amount of amazingly talented women on the Indy scene. Enough that it’s almost impossible to ignore.
Great article, and it makes me think about that rumor that Jane Geddes was fired because she dared to speak up for the Divas being abused in developmental. She was “in power” and even she wasn’t safe.