When Lucha Underground blows off a feud in the most violent manner possible, it tends to fulfill the potential and vision that the company always strives for. If you’re looking to point to one moment or match that will explain in one shot what the company is all about, you might point to Grave Consequences, or maybe Vampiro vs. Pentagón Jr.
After last year’s Ultima Lucha Tres Part One, pro wrestling fans have a new entry in the pantheon: the Hell of War match between Killshot and Dante Fox (AKA Shane Strickland and AR Fox), which shocked people with its brutality, but packed athleticism, storytelling, and emotion into the bout and attained the pinnacle of what death match wrestling can be capable of.
At a recent PCW Ultra show, we interviewed Strickland and Fox for an episode of our With Spandex Podcast, and we wanted the crux of that interview to be a conversation about what goes into putting together — and then executing — a match like this. They were happy to tell us.
So, let’s talk about your guys’ amazing match; one of the best matches of 2017. What was it like putting that match together? And how collaborative was it with the two of you and the production team?
AR Fox: Well, once they told me we were going to have [a death match] … Because that’s kind of like one of my favorite matches to have. Something that’s athletic, but it’s still hardcore, because I’m a fan of both. That was a real big stage for me. Especially to have a singles with someone that I know I could work with, and that is going to be open to a lot of my ideas and stuff like that. Once I knew we had a lot of time, and I knew it was a singles, and I knew it was death match style … I was on it all night, literally thinking about — I had so many ideas.
I just keep taking the worse [ideas] out, until I come up with some … You know, of course Shane had his ideas, too, we mixed them in. But I stayed up all night thinking about that match, because it was a real big … I really wanted to show the world what I could do, you know? I mean, it’s not my only chance, but that was my first chance showing them.
I had singles matches and other matches there, and stuff like that. [At Ultima Lucha Tres] we got a singles with a long time and I could be creative with weapons; this is my absolute favorite kind of wrestling. I stayed up all night thinking of shit. I pretty much brought everything to Shane and he put in his, whatever he had, and yeah, it was just, it’s exactly what I wanted it to come across as.
Shane Strickland: The funny thing is, when we would come ideas, and put them together, it’s stuff we want to take. It’s never stuff we want to give. I was like, “I’m willing to go through this.” And then he would come up with, “He’s willing to go through this, well, I’m willing to go through this.” And the trust factor with that between us two is just like unparalleled, man.
Fox: And it wasn’t like I just came up from scratch, we have worked several times before, so I kind of knew he did like that, you know what I mean, too? I didn’t want to come across I just [put it all together] But yeah, it was like, I knew … It was almost like our greatest hits in a sense, you know? With weapons added to it. Something like that.
Is that the CZW background, and that mentality that drives that?
Fox: For me it’s like not even if we have death match or not, how many times we’ve shared a locker room or whatever. It’s just when I dive, whoever takes care of me the best, that’s who I end up feeling most comfortable with. Pretty much that’s all it’s based off of. That’s the guy that I’m willing to do the most with, you know, but it’s like, when the guy’s like … I see if a dive or something sketchy not going wrong, and maybe it’s not even a match with me, but I see that they don’t go out of their way to protect other guy. Because that’s the only way you can really go all out. Is by putting your body in each other’s hands, it’s all …
I’ve noticed certain guys who really want to do that, and guys who don’t you know. It’s just simple as that, and for me, it’s like a full blown trust, it’s not like, even thought I’ve wrestled hundred of people. It’s not that many people. It’s a good handful of people that I’ll do all that stuff with. You know what I mean? I want go out all the time, too, so that’s like a conflict in itself. When I got a guy, I don’t know, I already know he doesn’t want to do much.
Strickland: That’s always tricky.
Fox: And I want to do everything, but it’s like I know he’s not going to go out of his way if I happen to slip; if I go short, you know.
People know AR Fox for doing crazy athletic things. Being this aerial wrestler. You feel that doing a hardcore match is a better way to get across what you’re all about, what you’re capable of?
Fox: Not just a hardcore match; exactly what that match was. Was my best way to show what I do, if I have to show anybody a match, and they had that much time, that would be the match I showed them. To show them what I do. Instead of just showing them a crazy death match, with all glass, or crazy high-spot. Eight-, 10-minute sprints … Yeah that’s what I mean. It showed the risk I take, that sense. But we also did athletic stuff. Everything built, we also took crazy moves, too. Give crazy moves, you know, whatever. We could flip this way, that way, kick, slam, flip, spring board, glass. You know, so that was the best in a nutshell. What I do to someone if they don’t know what I do at all.
I think the handful of death matches that Lucha Underground has done, have been the best possible Death Matches you can have. Pentagon and Vampiro, the Hell of War match, and the Weapons of Mass Destruction. It’s always been a huge story presented in a cinematic way. Where it’s not just like, glass, glass, glass, glass. You guys build to stuff.
Strickland: Well, the story I always wanted to tell with Fox, especially with him coming in like season three, he had to come in and make an impact right away for the fans. Of course everybody knew AR Fox, but like, they need to know who Dante Fox, the character is, and for him to make an impact on the Temple, in that universe itself. I imagined it like, I was Wolverine and he was Saber Tooth. He’s a bigger, stronger, faster version than me.
He made a bigger impact quicker than I did, when I came in. That’s wanted to present him as. I’m like, “I want you to beat me. I want you to be stronger than me, I want you to be bigger than me.” He always had the upper hand throughout the entire season, you know. And he was always out smarting me, but I couldn’t get one over on him.
And so, when that culminated in this. I’m getting stuff, but he’s getting more stuff, he’s heavy hitting right now. But I had to take another step beyond that, which culminated to the finish of the Hell of War match. So, the story was told so well, we literally couldn’t have executed it in a better way. It was literally the painting that we envisioned. Before we even painted it. It came out exactly how we portrayed it. You know?
Knowing that you’ve spent so much time setting up this match, and knowing that it’s exactly the match that you both end up having, and you want to tell, and it’s a showcase for you … What’s that feeling like to finish that match and know that you pulled it off?
Strickland: Ah, dude, when I laid him in the truck. Where it was like, “We did it. We finally pulled it off.” Dude, it was like so much weight lifted off your shoulders, man.
Fox: That felling right there, it’s kind of hard to describe for me. Yeah, it really means a lot. Especially when there’s so much room for error or a lot of things. I feel like I like to push it to the limit. A lot of guys did this moves like this, and then other guys did it off the top. Well, all right we’ll do it off the top on something or to the floor, or backwards. You know what I mean? When I’m finally done with doing something like that, it’s just like, I’m riding the high of it. I don’t sleep, usually ever after shows. It’s crazy. It’s like an adrenaline rush, you know. Especially when you take a huge risk, and you end up not seriously injured, that’s an adrenaline rush in itself.
When you look down and you see panes of glass, and you’re like, “Okay, well, this could stab me, or this could definitely go wrong.” I could break something, some kind of freak accident could happen. You fall through it, and yeah, you get cut up to shreds, but I’m good, I didn’t break anything. It’s just like, that’s an adrenaline rush in itself. Where it’s hard to leave that show, go to a hotel and got to sleep. For me, that’s not happening. I need, usually I just stay up all night. It’s just crazy to me, doing some stunts like that.
This is just a portion of our conversation with Strickland and Fox. For the full interview, check out Episode 28 of the With Spandex Podcast. You can subscribe here to make sure you never miss an episode.
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