On the most recent episode of McMahonsplaning, the With Spandex podcast, Emily Pratt and Bill Hanstock interviewed New Japan Pro Wrestling star Rocky Romero. Romero, who has been wrestling professionally for over two decades, is known for his past work in tag teams including the Forever Hooligans and Roppongi Vice, as the fourth incarnation of Black Tiger, for his current role as the manager of Roppongi 3K, and so much more.
Excerpts from our interview about his work with the NJPW LA Dojo, wrestling in Mexico, repackaging Sho and Yoh as Roppongi 3K, and long history with New Japan that includes training with Antonio Inoki, are below. The full audio interview also includes talk about how Romero wrestled in all three Best of the American Super Juniors tournaments, doing English commentary for NJPW, how he became Black Tiger, and more.
With Spandex: You’ve been helping out with the [LA] dojo, correct?
Rocky Romero: A little bit. I mean, I’m kind of more of just like an advisor role. It’s really Shibata, he’s the guy who’s really running things. The LA office will ask me certain things, like “Hey, you know, what do you think about this?”… Just because I have experience in the last dojo and I saw so many failures and so many things went wrong there, so I try to just, like, interject like “Oh, I know what’s going on here, I’ve seen this before,” and I can kind of interject and put my little two cents, and it’s up to them, you know? It’s really up to them what they want to do, and Shibata, I think, is doing a great job, obviously.
I thought that two guys that wrestled [in the Fighting Spirit Unleashed dark match], Clark Connors and Alex [Coughlin] they did a great job opening the show with that dark match. And you know, if you noticed, there wasn’t like striking or anything, it was just kind of pure wrestling, which I thought was really cool too, so whatever Shibata’s doing, I’ll just let the mastermind, you know, do his thing.
You were part of the first Inoki dojo that opened up in Los Angeles way back in the day. What was that like to be a part of that?
It was wild. It was, like, interesting, because you could show up on a Monday and you’re training with Inoki, like literally, like training with him, and he’s like beating the shit out of you, and then stretching you and putting you in all these old-school catch submission holds and then, like, all of a sudden it would be like twelve o’ clock and then, like, DDP would show up and you’d be like, “Whoa, this is weird” and then DDP would come in there for a while and, like, talk to us for a little bit and then, like, he’d leave, and you think you’d be done for the day, and then Bas Rutten would show up, and then he’d be like, “Let’s put on the pads!” Everybody, like, puts on gloves and we’re just like doing kickboxing with Bas Rutten.
It was insane, because this was when MMA was still really popular, and Inoki still had – obviously he had New Japan, but he had like the Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye thing… he was maybe working with Pride or K-1 at the time or whatever or both, so fighters would come in, you know. Steve Blackman would come in. It was crazy. Joanie Laurer [Chyna] would come in all the time. So it was just a weird kind of space, but it was cool because you really would meet these people you grew up watching and all of a sudden they’d be there and they’d be, like, teaching you little things. It was cool. It was different.
It’s also crazy that you’ve been around for basically every era of modern independent wrestling…
Definitely it’s harder now, you know? I think obviously it’s these crazy hybrid athlete wrestlers now like a Will Ospreay. It used to be you had just one trick or two tricks, but that guy seems to have, like, all. You know, even like Ricochet is one of the greatest high flyers of all time, but then you put like Will’s power and speed on, like, that, and you’ve got a completely different beast, you know? And he’s bulking up and you can see he’s getting bigger. That kid could be a heavyweight… It’s hard to keep up with these guys, you know, it really is.
And then, you know, I have been wrestling for twenty years… My body has held up really well for twenty years, I think, but obviously I feel sometimes like I’m just a bit slower, like a step slower than I’m used to being, you know? And that could just be those guys are a million miles an hour and I just can’t keep up, but, you know, so this is where the other parted started to develop the last couple years. It was like, “Well, I need to develop more character stuff. I need to develop more things that really resonate instead of just depending on just the physical attributes, ’cause those are starting to wind down,” you know? Even though I’ve still got probably like a good five hard years, you know? But… the body changes. Time is time.
You never really had any significant injuries that have kept you out.
Not really, knock on wood, in the last probably ten years have I had any significant injuries. When I was Black Tiger, I dislocated my shoulder pretty bad when we went to Italy, which is a funny story…
So New Japan goes to Italy because Tiger Mask, the Tiger Mask comic book show or anime show, was big in Italy in like the eighties or nineties or something. Anyway, so there was a promoter there that ended up being the NWE promoter… they ran a bunch of stuff in Italy… They brought New Japan out there for the first time – this is pre-NWE – and we did this week-long tour. It was awesome, right?
But I wasn’t even supposed to go. We had a Best of the Super Junior actually going on… There was like a week in between where we just stopped the tour and then everybody was going on this Italy tour, but I wasn’t supposed to go. I was just supposed to hang out for a week…
Like two nights before, I was – this was because I was part of the dojo so I had a relationship with Inoki – it was like midnight, and I’m like half asleep at the dojo, like watching on an old-school DVD player, like a flip-top, and the phone rings downstairs, and one of the young boys, I don’t know who it was, I couldn’t tell you now, it was probably like a Naito or somebody cool now, but they were like knocking on my door and they’re like, “Uh, you got a phone call.”
So I go downstairs… and it was one of Inoki’s guys, and he’s like, “Inoki-san wants you to come to Roppongi right now to have some drinks and cigars.” I was like “Oh, okay.” I’m like, in my underwear, I’m like “Uh, yeah, I’ll be there, of course!” You know, you can’t say no to the boss, right?
So I get dressed, I go down there, and Inoki’s there and we’re in this little small, smoky bar, and he’s like with all these people I have no idea who – I’m not sure why I’m even being summoned, you know, but he’s like, “Oh, have a drink, have a cigar.” So I’m like awkwardly smoking cigars, trying to act like I’ve done this before and, like, drink whiskey.
And he just goes, “You know, Rocky, you’re one of my best students.” I was like, “Oh, thank you, I appreciate that.” And he goes, “Are you going to Italy?” I was like, “No, no, I’m actually just staying here in the dojo.” He’s like, “You’re one of the best guys in our company. You should be going to Italy.” And I was like, “No, it’s okay. I got the Super Junior. I’ve got it all planned out. I’m just going to train really hard for the week, you know.” He’s like, “Tomorrow.” And I was like, “Okay.”
So anyway, whatever, it winds down. I go back to the dojo late. And then like three hours later or something the phone rings, it’s like eight in the morning, and it’s like, “Rocky, we need your passport. You’re going to Italy.” And I was like, “Oh, what am I doing? They already announced all the matches, didn’t they?” They’re like, “Oh, they’re going to find a spot for you.”
So I went to Italy, didn’t do anything… was basically on vacation in Italy, which was awesome. No complaints here. Thank you, Inoki-san. And then finally the last day they say, “Oh, we’re going to put you in a tag match, it’s like you and Liger against like Tiger Mask and Ultimo Dragon” or something. So I’m like, “Oh sweet, cool, you know, a bunch of heroes, a bunch of famous legends, and me.” But I got the Black Tiger mask, so at least it looks like I belong there.
So I wrestle with Tiger Mask or something and I did a double stomp and I fell over and I popped my – dislocated my shoulder completely. It’s a bad dislocation. We all go to dinner after; they put my shoulder back in. Thank god Misawa was there. But I was in a sling.
So the next day we had, like, the day off, so I went to Venice with Ultimo Dragon in this, like, sling, but it was, like, cool, because I’d never been to Venice. I wasn’t going to say no… We get back and we have this big dinner to close out the tour, and I’m sitting there, and we’re all eating, everybody’s having a good time, it’s like “finally, the tour’s over,” type thing.
And Inoki stops the dinner and goes, “Rocky, come here.” And I go, “What’s up?” I’m in my sling. And he goes “Take off your sling.” I go, “Okay.” So I take off the sling. And he goes, “How bad is it?” I go, “It’s pretty bad. I don’t think I can wrestle for probably a few months, you know. That’s what the trainer said.” And he’s like, “Okay… let’s see.”And he starts, like, playing with my shoulder, and then he goes, “Shhh!” and he puts his hand like Mr. Miyagi-style over my shoulder… for like five minutes.
Now, at this point, everybody who was mid-eating has completely stopped and the room is silent and all eyes are on me and Mr. Inoki above me. And he starts “Shhh!” breathing on it and like zapping energy, I guess, into it. And then he goes, “Lift it.” And I haven’t lifted my shoulder probably in like a day or two, so I’m like, “Oh shit. Well, it’s on.” I wrench down (groans) and I lift my shoulder up halfway, and he goes, “You can do more.”
So I really bite down, I lift it all the way up, and at this point I can see the trainer who’s behind Inoki waving his hands going, “No! No!” basically, but it’s silent. And I lift it all the way… and he goes, “Good,” and I put it back down. And he goes, “How do you feel?” And I go, “Great!” And then he goes, “Awesome” and he just turns around, walks away from me, and starts talking to somebody else. And yeah, that’s the last time I had an injury.
Romero also talked about finding his way back to NJPW after working for Pro Wrestling NOAH, in Mexico for CMLL and AAA, and in the United States for indepedent promotions in the late 2000s.
I did NOAH for about a tour, then New Japan got a new president, and the issue was between me and the old president, so then the new president came, and they were like, “Oh yeah, you can come back anytime. We didn’t understand why you left.” They thought that I left. They didn’t understand that they told me basically to, you know, eff off. So I was like, “Okay…”
During this time I was on tour and I actually saw the New Japan people, so I was just expecting to quit NOAH and come right back. So then, but when I did that, NOAH – NOAH at this time was doing really good; they were doing better than New Japan – they got pissed, so they were like, “No, you can’t go back.” So they blocked me from going back to New Japan because they were going to steal Matt Bloom, Giant Bernard. They basically said, “If you steal Rocky, we’re going to steal…” I was like, “That is not a fair steal…”
But I was like, “Okay, I’ll go to Mexico, I’ll work for CMLL for a couple years, or like a year or something, and then I’ll come back to New Japan. I’ll be able to come back. This way I’ll be all free and clear, no dates in Japan otherwise, no political stuff.” So then I went to CMLL and they gave me this gimmick called “Grey Shadow,” and one of the biggest flops in probably lucha libre history. I debuted with, like, Místico, against like… the top paraguayo in Consejo – CMLL, and just completely shit the bed, basically. Just wasn’t a good debut.
And then I had all these dates set up for, like, the month, because the promoters were like, “Oh, this new star!” And then after that month, no work. Basically I went from two or three times, four times a week, to, like, they’d give me one show a week at Arena México coliseum making like eighty dollars. So I was making like eighty bucks a week in Mexico. I was starving… and they paid for my hotel; I had a place to stay, thank god. But other than that, like, I couldn’t afford to live, you know…
And you always wrestled in Mexico as Rocky?
Yeah, so that was the crazy thing too. I did CMLL years before that. I was still their champion, súper ligero champion, as Rocky Romero, they just hadn’t booked me in like seven years or something. But I had their belt! I even brought the belt back. I said, “Hey, if you want to do something with this, we don’t have to do this mask gimmick.” They’re like, “No, no, we want you to do the mask gimmick…”
Do you still have that belt?
No, I gave it back to them. Somebody’s the champion now, like one of the cool guys, Dragon Lee or something. I always tell them whenever I see it, “Oh, you guys have my belt,” because I never lost it. (Laughs) I just gave it back to them…
So long story short, it didn’t work out with CMLL, and I was trying to get my mask [removed], but nobody was listening, so I was just going to go home. It was over with… I felt bad that for the first time in my career I wasn’t successful… it was just complete failure.
So that was kind of weighing on me, and right before I was just about to give it up and go home, which was killing me, that I was going to give up, AAA came in and they offered me – Sean was there, X-Pac was there; he’s the one that set up the whole meeting – so me, Jindrak, Mark Corleone, Alex Koslov, and X-Pac and Dory, we all sat down in Mark’s apartment and he basically was like, “I want to sign you all, you know, and you guys just make a huge jump from CMLL to AAA,” which hadn’t been done like that, you know, four guys or three guys. So we all jumped. I was the first one. I was sweating bullets the first time. I thought the mafia was going to kill me. (Laughs) It was crazy, but it was fine, and it worked out for a few months, and then AAA just didn’t really work out, and, I mean, I ended up – I had money, but then it was, like, the situation was way worse in other ways.
So then I did that for about a year, and I was like, “I gotta find my way back to New Japan.” But at that point I’d just had enough. I’m like, “I’m just done with, like, everything, you know. If I have to just leave wrestling or get a new job or do something else,” because I had no idea what my options were going to be. Once you’re working in Mexico, it’s like the wrestling world kind of forgets about you, so I didn’t know what the indie options were.
So I just quit and I came back and just kind of floated for like a month or two and just kind of did indies everywhere. [David] Marquez booked me, thank god. And then I was just like, “I don’t know. Whatever happens, happens.” And finally, Shinsuke [Nakamura] came through and he said, “Okay, we’re going to book you…” Saved the day.
And now you do a ton of stuff in New Japan. You’re on commentary, wrestling… how did it come about you were going to be the manager of Roppongi 3K?
So when we decided that, you know, Trent [Beretta] was going to become a heavyweight, it kind of left me with a void. And the initial thing was like, “Oh, we’re just going to get you another partner.” But I was like, “I think people are going to be tired of that. I’m personally tired of it…” How many more belts, the same title belt, can I win? It’s just not challenging anymore. So I was like, “I’d rather not do that. I’d rather just do something else.”
And Sho and Yoh came up… They’d been gone for a year and a half. They need to come back. Obviously they’re a tag team. They’re going to be in the junior division. And I was like, “Oh, well why don’t I manage them? Why don’t I be their voice, you know? Just give me the keys and let me repackage them..” Because at that time they were Tempura Boyz and they were still trying to find themselves. They never really found themselves, I think, while they were in the U.S. They weren’t really getting those high profile matches that probably they wanted, like Jay White had, you know. So they were just kind of like, “We want to be wrestlers… we want to step to the next level, but we have no idea how, or what to do…”
I saw them at a New York show that we did with Ring of Honor… and I just got the idea of… the gold and silver guys, the robots… Daft Punk! I saw Daft Punk and then I saw them, and I was like, “I could use this gold and silver thing, and then kind of repackage them somehow.” I didn’t know exactly. It wasn’t a completely formulated idea, but there was some inspiration in that… I started to really think about it and start jotting ideas down, and talking to them back and forth… but that’s how the costumes came about and everything.
So you really did work with them a lot.
Absolutely, yeah. Initially working with them was different because they didn’t initially have any ideas. They were just like, “Whatever you want to do.” And I think they were just being, like, nice, and Japanese, and the respect, like “You’re the senpai.” You know, “You’re the elder, so you just come up with it.” And I was like, “No, you guys need to tell me.”
But once I got, I kind of got the ball rolling with a bunch of ideas, then they started to say, “Oh yes, I like this, or I like this.” And they started sending me images. We just started with, like, images. What images are cool to you? What’s something we can, like, use here? Starting with costumes and stuff.
And then I was like, “Okay, then we should do music,” and then I was like, I’m going to try to write something.” So then I went through a few songs before we finally picked the one that we ended up with. They said they liked it; I don’t know if they like it or not, to be honest. I think they were just being nice again. But I knew that was something the fans would get behind, you know, if it’s like a wrestler-type product… because that had already worked with me and Trent… I wanted it to have some of those things of Roppongi Vice that were successful, obviously, but it wasn’t going to end up being Roppongi Vice, it was going to end up being their own thing.
And, like, especially now I think it’s become their own thing more than mine. And then the stuff that we all play off each other with, which is fine. But now it’s all about just kind of developing their characters more. I think Sho is very straightforward, kind of like hard wrestler guy, Yoh is a little bit more goofy, and then I’m just, like, the goofiest, I guess, between them all. I don’t know. It’s been fun. It’s been fun. I’ll like to see what happens with them in the next year or so…
But they came in and they crushed it on the first night. I’ll never forget. One of the greatest moments of my career will be in the entranceway with the smoke gun and then all of a sudden, I can’t see them, but then I just hear this, like, crazy roar of the crowd like I’ve never heard before when they realize it’s Sho and Yoh and they can see their faces. Insane. It will be one of the greatest moments of all time for me.
Like nine times out of ten when I’m talking to other wrestlers you’ll come up and we’ll talk about how amazing you are and how maybe fans don’t necessarily appreciate you the way wrestlers appreciate you. You’re not always at the top of people’s lists, but you’re always at the top of wrestler’s lists. So I want to know what it’s like to sort of be considered a wrestler’s wrestler.
I think that… I think it’s really cool. Hearing you say that makes me feel really good. And the fact that, you know, being a wrestler’s wrestler is kind of like those actors who are not famous actors, but, like, they’re like the greatest supporting role actors, you know. So I guess I’m just like a supporting role character. But it feels good.
There’s always been times, I think, that you feel like you want more though too, you know. And I think especially, like, now – I went through New Japan when it was not as successful, right? So there’s a part of me that’s like, you know, I see some guys and they’re having these great moments, you know, and we’re all the same age. You know, like Naito’s my same age, Ibushi’s my same age, Kushida right around the same age… and it’s like, wow, these guys are having these great successes, they’re getting to have these great, huge, awesome matches in big arenas, and it’s like “Aw, but my time was before somehow.”
So I think that will always mess with me because that’s the wrestler in me. That’s why I got into wrestling. That was the part of wrestling that got me excited about it, you know, was like those big opportunities, those big matches, but I’m okay with not being there either though. I should say that. Because I enjoy what I do backstage. I enjoy the other things that I do. I enjoy – I want everybody to succeed. I really love this company. I’ve put so much effort into this. I’ve put almost my whole career into it, so sometimes I’ve kind of got to, like, “Relax, man. It’s not a big deal.”
And you can always be a supporter from the outside because you never know, too, because, like, what if somebody gets injured and then – I’ve seen Gedo so many times when somebody gets injured, and it’s like “Who are we going to put in there?” And Gedo’s like, “Damnit, I have to put myself in there and I don’t want to go in there…” That’s still an opportunity too, you know, and just do the best for what the company needs or whatever the other wrestlers need.
But, um, I don’t know. It’s kind of like there’s a double edge in it too, you know, especially with the success nowadays. But I’m just glad to be a part of it, you know, in the end. That’s what’s cool and important. I’m glad that somehow I’m involved… I just want to be a part of it.
And, you know, you’re still young and you still wrestle at the same level you’ve always wrestled at, so who’s to say that the next few years won’t lead to even bigger things for you.
Maybe. You know, if they do, they do. If they don’t, I’m just going to continue on, like I said, just keep supporting everybody and supporting the product and just kind of being everybody’s support. I think that’s the most important thing to do. I mean, it’s kind of a special position. Maybe I won’t go down in the history books as like the guy, you know, I’m not going to be a Kenny Omega or something like that, but I will be maybe behind the scenes when everybody writes their books in twenty years they’ll be like, “Oh, that’s the guy who helped out behind the scenes, you know, but he didn’t get the credit…”
I’m not trying to be down about it. It’s actually a beautiful thing in the end, you know, because it all needs to work out, you know? If this was all like TV or a movie, I would be a very important producer in the end, you know, that really got things going. I would. So I’m okay with that. I’m totally fine with that…
Personally as a wrestler, I’ll never be able to stop, like, “Oh man, I would love to go for another championship match. I would love to wrestle a Ryogoku singles match.” Just because, you know, you grew up watching Shawn Michaels and these guys have these huge matches, like you’ll never stop wanting those things. But it’s okay. I enjoy what I do. I love what I do. I f*ckin’ love what I do.
We also love what you do, and we hope that you keep doing it for a very long time.
And I can! That’s something that I can do for a very long time, so I definitely will be doing it, hopefully, for the next thirty years or so.
