No one on Industry is truly innocent, and Harry Lawtey’s Robert Spearing has been, at times, a bad boy and bit of a mess, falling into toxic relationships, situations, and substances across the show’s first three seasons. But there’s a sweetness to him.
These moments are most evident when he’s allowed to be most different from other characters in the show’s ensemble. Moments of quiet longing (or anticipation) in orbit around Yasmin (Marisa Abela), the contrasting ayahuasca retreat revelations exhibited by him and nepo tech brat Sir Henry Muck (Kit Harington), and the prospect that he might actually be Industry’s “Final Girl,” exiting the world of Pierpoint with his heart (mostly) intact.
Protecting Rob’s heart has always been actor Harry Lawtey’s chief priority. He also understands the risks the character faces by going through his life, “heart first,” telling me recently that it can make the character “vulnerable” and “easy to manipulate.” But there’s value in the lessons that it teaches.
As you can see in the below interview, Lawtey moves with openness too, describing the ride of Industry and where he is in his own life and career (including his awe in witnessing the spectacle of his next project, Joker: Folie à Deux) before pondering, briefly, his own future goals. But Lawtey never seems to get too far ahead of himself, lest he miss out on the fun of getting there.
How protective are you of Robert’s heart?
I’m greatly protective of it. It’s my main concern, actually. It’s always been my primary priority with the character. Ever since the first season, really, I found myself whenever I approached a scene with Robert – and I did not necessarily always share this with the writers and certainly not with other cast members – just privately going, “Okay, how can I make his heart visible at this moment?” Even when he was doing fairly reprehensible stuff in the first season, I was always trying to pursue a way of making him feel human and sympathetic and ultimately boyish, because I think that’s what he is. And he’s on his way to becoming a man and trying to figure out the best version of that he can be.
But I think he has a big heart and I heard Konrad [Kay, series co-creator] say a few weeks ago that he thinks that everyone in the show has their heart underneath 10 sheets of steel. And Robert is the only person that wears it on his sleeve. And that really resonates with me and I’m glad he feels that way.
In this third season, I think it’s the point at which that heart is most put to the test. He really does go through the wringer and to the extent where he even feels himself to be cursed. And ultimately whether consciously or consciously, he’s just trying to lead through his life heart first I think, and that makes him susceptible, it makes him vulnerable. And it makes him easy to manipulate.
And episode five is the epitome of that where he realizes that he’s been a pawn in quite a large game that is way beyond his pay grade and he is completely dispensable to this corporation. And ultimately it’s just a faceless name in this very cynical unsympathetic structure that he’s a part of.
There’s power in realizing that, isn’t there?
Completely. Yeah, there’s liberation in realizing that.
At this point, Rob realizes, perhaps, that the root to happiness isn’t just this bath in capitalism, maybe it’s something larger. Do you feel extra pressure in terms of having to carry that message? Because it’s a profound moment that I think takes time for people to get to sometimes.
I haven’t necessarily looked at it like that, but it’s interesting to put it forward. I think what’s easy to forget amongst the maelstrom of Pierpoint and all the very acute demands that are placed on them, is they’re ultimately just like people in their 20s, and they’re doing people-in-their-20s-type things, which is, as someone who could speak from that current experience myself, is an ongoing journey of discovery. And that doesn’t start and end at your 20s, I imagine it goes well beyond that.
Yeah, it’s a ride.
[Laughs] Yeah, it’s interesting in terms of him being the flag bearer for that show. I say this over and over again and I’ve been saying it for five years, but for me it is the central thesis of Industry: it is about whether one can do the things that they want to do in life and also be the person they want to be. And the dialogue and I suppose the synthesis between those two notions – is it compatible? And I think Robert, especially in this season, is the person who is most prominently challenging that idea. And just questioning sometimes you have this awakening, what the hell am I doing? But it’s so easy for all of these characters to lose perspective, and I can relate to that.
I think anyone who works in a high-pressure profession can relate to that. I think because you get caught up in the race of it all. Ironically, probably when we’re filming the show, I can sometimes engage with those ideas because the schedule is so intense and we care so deeply about doing a good job, and serving the fans and making something that is worthwhile. But even then occasionally in that seven, eight month period you go, “What? I should just chill out. It’s not the end of the world. None of this really matters.” And I mean that in the best possible way and I think Robert is probably having that awakening on a much more extreme global level in the show.
And unlike us, I suppose, in reality, it’s so intrinsically related to his self-esteem, and he’s probably saying, “Why am I measuring myself in this binary way? Surely I should just be more preoccupied with trying to be a good person.” And maybe the place he resolves to find himself is, “Oh, can I have my cake and eat it? Maybe, is it okay? I can still like money, it’s okay to want money. It’s okay to follow it to some degree, as long as I don’t sell my soul in the process. As long as I treat people with dignity and respect, as long as I stay true to the fiber of who I am.”
With regard to the notion of selling one’s soul completely, I find it’s almost like can you segment it? “Well, if I sell 5% of my soul, then I still have this 95%.” You’re making these little bends and then, all of a sudden, you look up and you have no soul.
Yeah, exactly. Can you siphon it off? Can you compartmentalize who you are, I suppose? And there’s so many… I think all the characters are doing that. I don’t think that’s bespoke to Robert. I think he’s on his own individual journey with it, which is very different to the rest, but I think they’re all doing that, I think, and what we see in this season is we realize that Eric’s someone who’s been doing that for 30 years. And he is the the monster at the end of the road. If you refuse to check in with yourself for so long, that’s what might be your destiny. You end up as a confused capitalist monster.
In your own career, do you struggle with that in terms of measuring yourself and being able to have the perspective of “if I don’t get a role, it’s not the end of the world, more will come” and things like that?
Yeah, I think ultimately any actor who tells you that they don’t have some kind of ongoing dialogue with those feelings is lying.
I’ve had very prestigious actors tell me that at one point or another they thought, “I’m never going to work again.”
Oh yeah, you have to, absolutely. To some degree you have to make a friend of that feeling. I don’t think it’s going anywhere. And I certainly feel it still. I feel that most days on set, really. And that’s not to say that I don’t enjoy it. I love going to work. It’s such an immense privilege to be able to do the thing I do, and it’s not lost on me how fortunate I am. But it’s still a daily test of confidence. And not only is it a daily test of capability, whether you’re up to the task, but it’s so crucial to be able to do your job properly… that you are ready to do it, that you feel you have the kind of facility and the confidence and the self-esteem to be able to match it and meet it where it demands you to be.
And I think every actor I know has their own personal dynamic in relation to that. I certainly do, and that’s evolving and has evolved over the last couple of years, but I’ve been fortunate enough to work with some sublime actors, some world-class actors where I’ve watched them on set and been like, “What you are doing right now is remarkable.” And then they call cut and I see them racked with all the same doubt and neurosis. And it’s just a part of the job, I think. It’s part of doing something creative, because ultimately to try and make something that wasn’t there before is fairly vulnerable because people might think it’s bad. And they might not be grateful that you made it. But you have to keep on wanting to do it. And I do, because it’s also really fun and I meet lovely kind people who make it worthwhile, and we do it as a team. And that’s what keeps me going back.
Sometimes acting drives me nuts, but I love going to work every day. And that’s a strange contradiction of sorts because going to work is where I act, but going to work is also where I get to be around all these amazing expert people. And so, that’s how I make sense of it.
What was it like seeing those elements of spectacle and big song and dance numbers on Joker: Folie à Deux come to life?
It was pretty remarkable and genuinely one of the most surreal experiences of my life, I think. We’ve just been talking about Impostor Syndrome. I was waiting to wake up. I think the infrastructure and the vision of that film is unlike anything I’ve experienced before. And to have a project that is operating on such a high level, and yet be made in a way that feels very personally crafted and very impulsive, and very almost improvisational was very striking to me. Because I’ve not worked on many films like that, but I immediately got the sense of I don’t think this is how films like this are usually made. And yeah, I had a strong instinct for that. And for that reason I felt really lucky. And seeing world-class iconic performers like Joaquin and Gaga, having a front-row seat to their work was a privilege.
I read this GQ Brad Pitt/George Clooney profile. Clooney was mentioning how back in the day, Clark Gable and other icons would have like 25 years. Him and Brad Pitt are already 40 years into careers that are obviously still going. You’re 27, do you allow yourself to think about a career that expands for five decades or is that too much pressure?
Yeah, a bit of both. I think there is a bit of pressure in looking that far ahead, and I’m certainly reluctant to do it because people always ask you… a common question you get is what’s your dream role? And I certainly don’t have one because I think it’s a fool’s errand to pin your hopes on anything too specific because the industry is so random and your place within it is so intangible and based on good fortune. And so I try not to think too far ahead, because also you then lose sight of what a pleasure it is to be where you are.
The ‘Industry’ season 3 finale airs this Sunday on HBO.
