Bellator 175’s King Mo Thinks Rampage Jackson Is ‘Lame’ And Hates The Culture Of MMA

Without ever stepping into the UFC cage, Muhammad Lawal has been one of MMA’s most interesting stars over the last decade. Making his debut in Japan with a crown on his head amidst a gaggle of Japanese models holding umbrellas, “King Mo” just seemed to get “it.” A champion amateur wrestler, he’s a student of the sport and has built a career for himself that you just don’t see anymore. Mo takes short notice fights, moves up in weight, and enters Japanese Grand Prix tournaments. The guy is consistently chasing a challenge with style.

At Bellator 175, however, Mo is chasing revenge. He’s going up to heavyweight to rematch Rampage Jackson in an attempt to right the split-decision loss he suffered against Jackson back in 2014. We spoke to Mo about the state of MMA culture, Rampage, “moneyweight” fights, Wrestlemania’s “weak” lineup, and why Bellator is going for entertainment over sport.

Why did you turn down free WrestleMania tickets from Phil Baroni?

You know what? I’m going to be real with you. WWE… I was never a big fan of it growing up. I was WCW/NWA guy. Then Ring of Honor, that’s my favorite wrestling organization right now. Ring of Honor, then New Japan. Actually, Ring of Honor, New Japan, you know, together. But Ring of Honor is where it’s at. I’m about to go to Supercard of Honor April 1st in Lakeland, Florida. That’s the Young Bucks face the Hardys, and I’m excited about that matchup. WrestleMania, the lineup looks weak to me. And last year was okay, you know. I don’t know. Ring of Honor is just where it’s at for me. Ring of Honor is a faster pace, more high flying, stiffer style. I like the storylines better. I like the gimmicks and the characters better as well.

Are you still training wrestling at all?

You know what? Wrestling’s just too hard to my body, man. If I do anything, I wouldn’t mind being a manager or some guy that comes in and interferes with matches. But you know, right now I’m just a fan of it. I watch it. I know that, in my opinion, it’s harder to do that than it is to do MMA. So MMA is more about reactions and protecting yourself. Pro wrestling has more rules to the game. The techniques and being able to do work with whoever you wrestle with at any time, it’s just different.

So we’re a few days away from your rematch with Rampage Jackson. Why do you think he wanted this fight with you?

I’m not sure why. I don’t know. Bellator just called me up and said, “we have a fight for you.” I was like, “cool. Who?” They were like, “we can’t tell you that.” I was like, “okay, can you at least tell me the weight?” They said either 235 or heavyweight. So I was thinking Bobby Lashley. They offered me 235 or heavyweight. Sounds like Bobby Lashley to me. And the next thing I know, at the Ortiz/Sonnen fight, it was Quinton. So, you know, it is what it is, man. I signed a contract. That’s who I’m fighting. I’m going to take care of business.

That’s how Mitrione signed his contract to fight Fedor as well. How do you feel about that as a fighter, that Bellator is going in this direction?

I don’t care, really. It makes no difference to me. Every organization’s a little different. You know, Rizin has tournaments with blind draws. Bellator, they call you up and say, “hey, we have a mystery opponent for you. We’ll announce who the opponent is seven or eight weeks before the fight.” I’m cool with that. the UFC does their own thing. They’ll say, “hey, we’ve got a super fight. GSP vs. Bisping.” You know, everyone does their own thing. It just depends on, you know, what your flavor is, if you like it or not.

With Bellator making all these moves signing fighters, I’m starting to get a Monday Night Wars feeling going here. Bellator is really starting to make some big-time moves. How do you feel about the two companies starting to clash again?

Well, the thing is, we’re not clashing with nobody. We’re just doing what’s best for us. We’re not competing with the UFC, we’re competing with ourselves. The UFC does their thing; we do our thing. The only thing that I don’t like is we’re about entertainment, and people are bashing us. “Oh, it’s a freak show. Blah blah blah.” But the UFC is doing the same thing. You know what? It’s entertainment. We’re out there to entertain. The UFC is doing the same thing that we’re doing. Before, when Bellator was supposed to be a sport, like a tournament, people were like, “it’s cool, but we wanted to see the matchups that we want to see” and people would bash that. Now, Bellator got away from the tournaments and now people are like, “well, that’s not fair sport.” No. It’s about entertainment. Whatever draws viewers is what we’re going to do.

Speaking of drawing viewers, rampage says he wanted to make this a nipple ring versus chain fight. Are you going to take him up on that?

I don’t got nipple rings. The thing is, Quinton… This is the same stuff over and over. Let me guess. He said my breath stunk. He said I’m ugly and my hair’s ugly, and I’m not going to stand and bang with him. I’m going to hump his leg and this and that. He probably said all that stuff, right? Man, he’s lame.

You said recently that you’re going to hump his leg for 15 minutes…

Yep.

Doesn’t that seem like anti-promotion to you? Considering how fans react to the sport?

I said that because he’s been saying “oh, he’s going to hump my leg.” He’s saying it so much that I got tired of hearing it, so I was like, yeah, I’m going to hump your leg. That’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to hump your leg for 15 minutes, so get ready for it. So I said it. If fans want to tune in, they’re going to tune in regardless of what I said. If they’re going to listen to what I say and expect that to happen, then you know, they have to take that risk and see if I’m going to do that or not.

You said that you’re probably going to be weighing in around 209/210 pounds come fight time. Does that mean that you only cut four or five pounds for light heavyweight?

Yeah, I never cut much weight for light heavyweight. There are times with Bellator I came to the weigh-in, I get there on Monday or Tuesday and I’m 207. I’ve never been a big 205er. You know, everyone thinks I look small at 205 but I guess just because I’m ripped and I’m in shape people think I weigh more than what I really do, but I don’t weigh much at all. I barely average over 215. Rarely over 215. I’ve been over 215 like a handful of times. Usually, I’m like 213. You know, when I fought Cro Cop, I was 213. Possibly less when it became fight time because, you know, overseas, like the food’s not that good, so I wasn’t eating like I normally do.

How do you feel about the potential new weight-cutting rules that the California Athletic Commission just came up with? Do you know anything about that?

I heard about some of them but with me, it makes no difference because I don’t cut no weight. So whatever rules they have don’t affect me at all.

Are you an anti-weight cutting type of guy? Do you shake your head at other people that are starving themselves for weeks, or do you not really care?

I don’t really care cause it don’t affect me. You know, you…as long as it don’t affect me, it’s on you.

Recently, Rampage just came out again and he said that he regrets even starting in the sport of MMA. Do you empathize with him? Are you seeing like Rampage at the end of his career kind of reflecting back and do you feel bad for him?

No, I think he just said that stuff just to say that because he was probably in a bad mood or something when he said that. Cause the thing is, without MMA, he wouldn’t have been in The A-Team. He wouldn’t have traveled the world. There’s a lot MMA helped him accomplish, and he accomplished for MMA. It goes hand in hand. Without MMA, there would be no Quinton Jackson. Without MMA, Quinton Jackson, would have never become a star and helped build PRIDE. Because he helped build PRIDE. So it goes hand in hand. He’s probably helped MMA more than it helped him.

It seems like there is some respect. You guys are both long-time fighters. And like you said, he helped build PRIDE. After this fight, will the beef be squashed, do you think?

I don’t really care much for him. I don’t know him. I’ll never get to know him. I don’t care to know him. You know, I just think he’s fake. Fake as hell. I think he’s a hypocrite. I don’t care much for him, about him. You know what I’m saying? I don’t rock with him. I roll different. I’m a different type of person.

If you win, do you want a trilogy fight?

For what? Cause really, I won the first fight, there shouldn’t be a rematch. But he asked for one, so I gave it to him. That first fight, I thought I won. Most people thought I won. He thought I won. Look at his reaction. He came and asked for a rematch. Look at his corner’s reaction. Look at his corner’s reaction before the results are read. As a matter of fact, someone sent me a screenshot of Quinton’s facial reaction after the Machida fight and after my fight. Like, you know, when the results were read, he looked bug-eyed and confused because he thought he lost. You know what I’m saying? And his same facial expression for both fights.

Do you think this is about redemption for him? Like he felt like he could have done better? It doesn’t seem like him to do this.

I don’t know. I have no idea. I don’t care. I don’t really care. I never thought about it. I think it’s the money. I don’t know. I have no idea. I have no idea. I’m just glad it’s happening.

What other matchups are you interested in? Wanderlei? You have Bader coming in now.

I don’t know about that. Maybe Bader. I’ll fight whoever. It doesn’t make a difference to me, but Wanderlei…Wanderlei can fight whoever. I wouldn’t mind seeing myself versus Bader or myself versus Phil Davis again. I thought I beat him when we fought.

If at all possible, would you be able to fight on the Madison Square Garden card?

Yeah. If I could. If I could, the next day, I’d try to fight again. You know, that’s how you get paid — to fight. I can stay in shape. I can on course with my weight. You know what I’m saying? Which I do naturally.

Do you regret taking the Cro Cop fight on such short notice after just fighting in Bellator two weeks prior?

No. I’ll fight anybody. It doesn’t make a difference to me. I was healthy. I was ready to go. The only thing that got me was the time change and I didn’t have a chance to really prepare for him because he used the ropes against me. So if I had a chance to prepare in the arena like that and properly train for him, I would have beat him.

Do you think you’ll have a chance to meet him again in Rizen? He said he wants Fedor for his final fight but maybe there’s a chance?

I don’t know. I’d love to fight him. I asked. I looked to get a rematch. He knows. He knows he got lucky, and he barely beat me. He knows. You can look at his face. And I was the only person pushing him. All the marks on his face, all the bruising and everything you see was what I did. He ran through everybody else, but I pushed him to the max. I made him dig deep.

Will Rizin grow into a PRIDE-level type promotion in the future?

I think it can, but I think partnering with KSW and Cage Warriors and Bellator you get to see so many different matchups. You get a chance to spread your brand, and you get a chance to expose different fighters to organizations with a different demographic.

There’s something just special about Japan. Maybe it’s the pageantry. Obviously, you started your career there. What do you think it is about those fights and that audience that makes people want to fight there?

The fans. The respect from the fans. The respect from the other fighters. I don’t how to explain it. There’s more honor there. You know, more respect. The pageantry helps. And every fighter on that card feels like a superstar. Essentially every fighter on the card from the bottom of the card to the top feel like stars.

That’s fascinating to know because it seems like whenever you watch a show it’s like the fighters really want to be there. And not only do they want to compete in the sporting aspect of it, but they want to put on a good show. Whereas in other promotions, you can tell that they really want to just win so they can keep on having a career.

Well, don’t forget the rules. The rules make you fight. You know, a knee to the downed opponent. Soccer kicks. And they judge the fight as a whole. That’s what makes you fight harder because you never know. They don’t go by rounds. In America, we judge round by round, so you can win the first three and then cruise the last two. Well, in Japan, no. You can win the first three and still lose. You can win the first four and still lose.

Do you think MMA in the United States will ever adopt those rules? I mean, they’re making slow changes, but do you think we’ll ever get away from the 10-point must system?

I don’t know. They can’t experiment with it too hard because of the commissions. I wish they did adopt the Japanese MMA rules. Because if you could do that, then you could actually get a clear-cut winner because there are so many ways to attack. You know, someone can knee him in the head till he stands up. You know what I’m saying? Or somebody just pulls guard. Kick them in the face, stomp them in the face. You know, there’s so much more ways to do damage. They take away the elbows. With stomping and kneeing, you don’t need elbows. You can stand up and take somebody down and instead of elbowing, you can stand up and stomp them in the face. I’d rather do that than elbow them.

Why would you rather do that?

Because the elbow just cuts you. A stomp would put you out.

Right. And a cut, who knows how long it’ll take to heal, and you could build up scar tissue.

Well, I don’t care about that. I’m talking about winning the fight. Like, you know, a cut could end the fight prematurely. A knockout’s what people come to see. So if I can stomp you or kick you in the face while you’re on the ground, guess what? You have a highlight reel right there. The crowd sees what they want. Where if I’m going to elbow you and cut you, and then they stop the fight. The referee goes to the doctor. “Can he continue?” And they say no. The crowd’s like, oh, that’s bull, man. He could continue. And he probably could’ve, but the blood… Well, if you stomp somebody in the face or kick them, they go out. The crowd can’t say nothing because you went out.

I remember speaking to you 5-6 years ago and you had such a love for all combat sports. Have you lost any of that love as time has gone on?

No. I love it, but I just hate the culture of MMA. I like combat sports. I like the culture of combat sports, but I hate the culture of MMA. What I mean by that is MMA is an Internet sport. MMA is more of what have you done for me lately? Wherein combat sports, like kickboxing, wrestling, boxing, once you’re an all-time great, you’re always an all-time great. James Toney will always be an all-time great even though he’s still losing. Roy Jones Jr., same thing. Where MMA, you can lose a few fights and they’re like, oh, this guy’s a bum. Cause it’s a bunch of Internet guys. Oh, he’s a bum. He bashed him out, he sucks. I’m like, no, but he was a great fighter at one point. People… they say what have you done for me lately far more in MMA because it’s a younger sport that panders to a younger crowd, and mostly they be trolls. You know what I’m saying? You have trolls anywhere, but for MMA it’s a lot worse because now, in MMA, everybody wants to be a fighter. Everybody wants to be an MMA fighter. It’s the cool thing to do. You join the cool kids’ club. You know what I’m saying? People try to dress like MMA fighters. They try to do this. You know, you don’t have that in kickboxing or boxing or amateur wrestling. You don’t have that. But you have that in MMA because Tapout and other brands make money, and they have a big influence on what you see in MMA.

Yeah, you’re seeing the push back a lot with Ronda Rousey and Fedor before that. As soon as Fedor lost to Werdum, he was out despite doing everything he did for the last ten years prior.

You have MMA fans and you have UFC fans. I just think MMA fans are a little bit more knowledgeable about the sport. They…and they respect. They show more respect, where UFC fans are just like the UFC sucks. Oh, Fedor, he’s terrible. You know, UFC fans just fault the UFC. MMA fans fault the whole sport or the whole competition.

You used to train with the Mayweathers, right?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I’ve got to ask you, because it’s on everybody’s tongue…

No chance! No chance! Cause let me ask you this. Think about this. Do you watch football?

Yeah.

Who’s the fastest player in the NFL?

Maybe a wide receiver? Brandin Cooks?

Okay, cool. Could he beat Usain Bolt in the 100-meter dash?

Probably not.

Unless he fell off the blocks. Flipped or something like that. That’s the only way he could win it. I’ve seen Mayweather rocked four, maybe five times in 49 fights. After all the rounds he went. So you mean to tell me you expect McGregor to win even though he’s making his pro debut in boxing versus Floyd Mayweather? Come on, man. Think about the announcements. Think about Michael Buffer, who announced him. In the blue corner, making his pro debut, but in the red corner, 49-0… Come on. It makes no sense. It’s stupid. It’s a mismatch.

Roy Jones versus Anderson Silva What do you think about that fight?

I think Anderson Silva’s boxing record is 1-1. He lost once by knockout. So I think he loses to Roy Jones. Sorry.