Walton Goggins is never not a good time in an interview. He’s a great storyteller. You could listen to him read microwave instructions and be captivated, but while it’s usually easy breezy, this one also goes to some more philosophical places. A spiritually nutritious conversation, if you will.
The reason for the season is the looming debut of Fallout (which hits Amazon Prime on April 11), Jonathan Nolan’s new Amazon Prime series based on the ultra-popular post-apocalyptic video game. The show’s charge is to nail the kind of quirky burnt futurism and expansiveness of the game. But while Goggins’ character — a noseless centuries old ghoul and bounty hunter — is full of swagger, there’s an undercurrent of sadness that is explored through flashbacks that show how his past informed his future.
In our conversation, we talk about Goggins’ own past and how it has informed his personality. We also talk about end of the world obsessions, his reading list, what keeps the ghoul going through pain and chaos, and the time he almost broke his phone with his face.
I want to talk about Fallout like crazy, but I got one question for you. Last time I talked to you, for a Righteous Gemstones interview, we talked about Justified. You said to me, “I will be watching all the way to the bitter end. How about yourself? Will you be watching to the end?” Was that code? Were you psychically letting me know about the surprise there at the end with you?
I remember our conversation and I remember saying that, and I was saying that on purpose. It was an Easter egg and it was a hint without hinting. That’s all I could say. You didn’t get it. Did you think about that after I said that?
Good. I love that. Yeah, I did.
Amazing.
I watched the screeners and I said, out loud, “Walton Goggins lied to me.”
Nope. I said to the bitter end.
Sin of omission. (Laughs)
Yeah, I guess I did lie to you. I guess I lied to everyone.
What can you do? That’s the gig. So, this show is awesome. I played the game like crazy back in the day and this is such a wonderfully realized world. Are you someone who is personally interested in or obsessed with end of the world scenarios?
Wow, man. No one has asked me that question. What a great question. The answer is no, I’m not. There are days where I am pessimistic only because I’m a moody, weird Scorpio, you know. And it’s a part of my process really, of being human. But no, I am an optimistic guy. I am very, very well-informed of what’s going on in the world. I’m a big fan of history. I have, in the last three months, read a book with my son about Genghis Khan and the making of modern history, and then I read The Fall of the Ottomans, and then I’m reading The Guns of August right now of Barbara Tuchman.
I am obsessed with my gaps in history, for trying to understand why we keep repeating the same mistakes But I am not obsessed with, nor do I really watch a story solely because it’s schadenfreude and the end of the world. I watched The Last of Us because Pedro (Pascal) and those guys are unbelievable actors and (the) great storytelling. I would watch this for the same reason. I’m a huge Jonathan Nolan fan, but it’s not because the topic is the end of the world. Although I think we’re fucking… like it’s pretty tough right now, but it has been tough throughout history for five, 10,000 years.
I like your Fallout character’s take it as it comes philosophy. Is that something you apply in your own life?
I like to think so. I try not to control the river too much of my life. There’s an element to me or a side of me that embraces improvisation, and I like that in traveling. I like that as a parent. I like that in friendship. And then, there’s also a part of me that, say, for instance, in storytelling, I have to control everything during the process, meaning I have to leave no stone unturned in order to turn myself over to “whatever happens, happens.” I’ve had that really my whole life. I’ve been in control. I’ve raised myself in a lot of ways, and by having control over my own environment has allowed me to open up my environment to all of these other variables and not be rattled by them.
In the fourth episode, why is it so important to him that he does not succumb to going feral? Someone who has been through as much as he’s been through — we’re getting little gingerbread pieces about the loss that he’s gone through. Why is it so important to him to not lose that last shred?
I’m grateful for how thoughtful these questions are. I have brought that up on my own. No one else has asked that question, but I think that’s what’s been so interesting about this process is answering that question for myself, and I will pose it the way that you pose it. Why? Why did he not go feral? Why did he not put a bullet in his head? What is it? What is it about his loss? What is it about what he knows? Why is he still alive and a person who has seen it all?
He’s seen the worst that human beings have to offer and has seen immeasurable suffering and has caused immeasurable suffering. Why is he still here? I have an answer for that, and I think that that will be revealed over the course of this show, so I’ll keep that to myself. But it is with intention and it is something that I spent a great deal of time answering for myself.
I have a theory that I will throw out there. You don’t have to confirm it. I understand, obviously, spoilers are at play in everything. My theory is, and I internalize it because I try to think of myself. When I’m watching something, like anybody, I try to put myself in that character’s boots. To me, I think that living forever with even the echo of a memory of what I had of a loved one, of a daughter, of a wife, would be enough to keep me going, I think, in some aspects. That’s my guess. But I’m curious to see where we land and what happens at the end, but that would be the reasoning for me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s complicated.
With the makeup, I read that the nose was a little bit of a shock to you. Everything you go through to play Baby Billy on Righteous Gemstones — the big wig and teeth — does that experience help you with this character, to be able to unlock the full dynamism of the performance without being hindered by any kind of makeup or anything that’s going to change your appearance?
Well, I’m a person that sticks to themselves. I stick to myself when I’m working. I don’t really talk a lot. I don’t socialize a lot, and I’m off in a corner pacing back and forth. I’m a mover. A lot of times, it’s hard for the ADs to find me. I try to tell them where I’m going, but I don’t even fucking know where I’m going. In some ways, this makes it easier for me because it’s a barrier between me and other people. The Ghoul is not someone you want to approach, right? I mean, really, it’s not a guy you’re going to slide up and say, “Hey, man, what’s going on? What you do this weekend?” He’s not that kind of guy, and I don’t put off that energy anyway. I’m not welcoming, kind of, in that way. In some ways, it does the work for me.
I find it much easier to have that experience on particularly dark days. I remember the first time I forgot that the makeup was even on. I haven’t told this story to anyone, but it was so funny. I don’t know if it’s in the algorithm, but there was a moment where it’s like, “Okay. This isn’t too bad of a day. It’s okay. I got the stuff on, I’m hanging out.” I’m actually comfortable for one second during the day, I’m going to do something which I never do, and I’m going to look at my phone. And I pulled my phone up. I have the glove, this shit on my fingers, but this day, I didn’t have the stuff on my fingers, so I was able to touch my phone. And the face ID came up and it was as if the fucking entire phone was going to explode, dude. (Laughs)
It was like, “Not only is that not you, Walton. I don’t know where the fuck you are, man, but I’m going to send help! Hold on. I got to get in touch with the United States Army. I don’t know what is happening right now.” (Laughs) I mean, it was thinking for a long time. Like, “Oh, is that, I don’t know, maybe the ear. I don’t know. There’s some facial structure. Oh, it’s forehead, it’s kind of high. It’s higher. I don’t see any hair.” It was so funny. I just thought, “Oh, of course. Oh my God, sorry.” It was such a crazy moment, dude! It made me laugh to no end.
(Laughs) Um, I think it was on Seth’s show when you did an interview and you talked about your dad. I thought that was awesome. That was hilarious. He seems like an absolute character. I’ve interviewed you a few times. You are a character. I genuinely enjoy talking with you. Is that individualism from him? Did that inspire you to be your own man and find your own individual way?
Thank you for asking that question. No. What I mean by that is, in my childhood, I had my father, my grandfather was an interesting, strange, funny-as-fuck guy. My grandmother, the women in my family, my mother and all her sisters were insane. All of their friends were insane. I had a pretty chaotic kind of upbringing. The one thing that I did have as a child was a lot of time by myself.
Same. Very much so.
I observed all of this chaos around me, and without judgment, just embraced it all. But I think whatever I am, it was a product of being alone for a lot of my life and being comfortable being alone, and not really having anybody to fall back on. It was really me. But what my family gave me and what our friends gave me — like my mom with her friends (is they) taught me with the importance of friendship and how to curate a group of people that you can go through life with. I have some amazing friends, and I have a lot of friends in a lot of different places, and I depend heavily on them. But I am a person who has always been on my own and I like that. I like that self-reliance and that independence. I don’t want to control anyone. No one. Nor do I want to be controlled by anyone.
That’s how I live my life and how I’ve lived my life for a very long time. It makes it easy to meet people and to be in people’s lives and to have them be in your lives, because it’s understood. I’m there for one reason and one reason only. Because I enjoy the company. I enjoy what you have to say, and I hope that you enjoy what I have to say. If for any reason you need to go, well then, I understand that and I’m not for you, and that’s okay too. That is something I experienced as a child growing up and something that is still with me now. I think you earn those friendships and you earn a place as people earn a place in your life every single time you’re with them. I tend to surround myself with only good people.
I really connect with that. Again, similar childhood, alone a lot as a kid, definitely self-sufficient. To me, it’s a blessing. It reminds me of a song. One of my favorite songs is Loudon Wainwright’s “One Man Guy.” I don’t know if you know it, but I think there’s more good than bad to being sort of self-reliant like you’re saying, and sort of self-raised.
Yeah. I agree, man. I agree. It’s weird as a parent now and after not having that in my life. I’m so in my child’s face. (Laughs) But with respect for his, we’ve had many discussions about that. He is autonomous.
I remember the last time we talked, you were talking about that with his movie tastes and not wanting to push too hard. I remember you saying that.
Yeah, yeah. Being an independent guy, I hope that I’m raising an independent dependent child. (Laughs) That’s so fucked up! That’s the one person I do want a little dependence on because I love him so much. I don’t want to let him go.
‘Fallout’ premieres April 11 on Amazon Prime
