You know those headlines like, “So and so doesn’t care what you think?” There are a lot of them. Go look. A lot of famous people don’t seem to care what you think. So, in this instance, that version of the headline would be, “Matthew Vaughn doesn’t care what you think.” Only that’s not true. Matthew Vaughn does care what you think. It’s always why I admire him as a filmmaker and an interview subject because he wears his heart on his sleeve. He wants to make entertaining movies that people like. And he was, as he admits, “devastated” by the reviews for The King’s Man. As we spoke, the review embargo lifted on Argylle and, well… I liked it quite a bit and I think people will eventually find this movie a really fun romp.
Vaughn seems to be everywhere this past week, making headlines by denying Taylor Swift wrote the book Argylle, a book that appears to not even exist. Then making more headlines by saying Deadpool 3 will be a “jolt” to the MCU, a movie Vaughn has nothing to do with. (Ahead, Vaughn says he regrets saying anything about that movie.)
In Argylle, a movie with about a dozen twists and turns, Bryce Dallas Howard plays Elly, who writes the Argylle spy novels. (The fictional Argylle is played by Henry Cavill.) When her books come too close to a real evil plot, her life is now in real danger and an actual spy (played by Sam Rockwell, having a great time) has to make sure she stays alive as the two go on a globetrotting adventure.
Ahead, Vaughn has a lot to say about a lot of things. How he’s been asked about Taylor Swift nonstop this week. How he even knows anything about the next Deadpool movie to begin with. And why Argylle is his first non-Kingsman movie since 2011’s X-Men: First Class. Speaking of X-Men, now that the franchise is under new ownership, would he consider doing another one of those movies? Also, he clears another thing up: In Argylle, there’s a quick Kingsman reference. Those movies were made by Fox, now Disney. Argylle is being released by Universal. So, how does that even work?
How are you?
My voice is going. I mean, I’ve done a lot of talking.
Yeah, you’ve been everywhere. As you can tell my voice is gone, too. I was cheering too hard for the Chiefs on Sunday. Which is related because I’ve noticed you’ve had to talk about Taylor Swift a lot, who she roots for.
Wow. So you’re allowed to switch teams in America?
I’m originally from Kansas City.
But Taylor Swift is supporting the Chiefs? In England, once you pick your team it doesn’t matter what you’re doing in life, you don’t swap.
Oh, I see. The way I understand it, she liked the Eagles but I don’t know how actually big a fan she was. But now she’s dating Travis Kelce, the Chiefs’ tight end. You haven’t heard about this?
Oh, I have heard about it. Yes, I have heard about it. I’ve heard a lot about Taylor Swift in the last week. I was so jet-lagged. I watched an American football match, but it wasn’t that one. I watched the 49ers. Quite exciting to watch.
Yeah, they had a big comeback.
Yeah, I know. It’s pretty cool. It was fun.
I know you love ’80s movies. Do you know what movie Argylle reminded me of? At least the spirit? Romancing the Stone.
Oh, 100 percent! It was the reason I even thought of making this movie. I adored Romancing the Stone. And I’m a big fan of Zemeckis and Michael Douglas and I watched the film of my kids during lockdown and they said, “Why haven’t you ever made a movie like this?” I thought that was a very good point and decided to do something very different and similar at the same time.
People don’t talk about that movie enough. It is really great.
Again, it’s sort of a perfect example of ’80s cinema where they were really, really well-made movies, but they were really entertaining. Like Back to the Future, Romancing the Stone, Raiders. They were blockbuster entertainment, but they were great movies at the same time.
So in your opinion, why don’t we get a lot of movies like those anymore?
During lockdown, it’s a bleak world, and it’s gotten bleaker. And I was like, maybe it’s time to make some movies and make people forget. Where fun is not a bad word and escapism is good. So I don’t know what it is. Fear? The studios are going through a rough time at the moment. The movie business. And they had a formula that worked for a long time and I think deep down they know that the formula needs to change. But it’s quite difficult to change the formula and it’s a very scary moment jumping off. If the airplane is flying and it seems to be flying well, and even you know that you’re about to run out of fuel, still, you’re going to have to jump off and you’ve got a parachute that might or may not work. And I think some people will just stay on that plane thinking, well, maybe it’ll fly a little bit longer. Not knowing that there’s a mountain around the corner that they’ll get straight into so they’re buggered if they don’t jump, so they go jump.
It’s surprising this is the first non-Kingsman movie you’ve done since I think, what, 2011? X-Men: First Class.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. It’s the first non-Kingsman movie that I’ve directed, been quite heavily involved in the producing of them.
Oh, I know, but it’s still surprising.
What’s more remarkable for me? There have been ten years that I can’t believe that that’s how I’ve spent the last decade of my life – has whizzed so quickly and it’s a bit depressing when you see your children leaving home. And yeah, you’re right, it’s a bit surprising. And people are saying to me, “Why do you keep making spy movies?” I’m like, “I like them.” So I love the Kingsman universe. I love now the Argylle Universe. I’m not saying that I’m not going to not do non-spy movies, but you can only do what your heart and your instinct tells you.
It kind of sounds like you are saying that. You’re just going to do spy movies.
I have two things, which aren’t spy movies I’m working on. And I have two things which are spy movies I’m working on. Whichever we get ready first, I’ll do.
You made headlines by talking about how the third Deadpool movie would be a “jolt” for the MCU. My question is, are you on an X-Men text thread or something? How do you get this information?
I maybe shouldn’t have said that comment. That was more of a flippant comment, just meaning, obviously, I’m very good friends with Hugh Jackman. And Hugh was telling me about it. And I was like, that sounds amazing. And I probably shouldn’t have said that anyway, but at least I knew it. All I can say is it sounded amazing and it’s probably not my position to say it.
I have a feeling the good folks at Deadpool III are happy you said that because it got a lot of good press for that movie. I don’t think they’re upset you said that.
You never know, but it’s not really my position to say it. And it was genuine, and I’m very excited for it.
Well, now that things are being reset with the X-Men movies, or whatever they’re going to do, because I don’t know – you obviously more than I do. I’ve said this to you before, First Class is my favorite X-Men movie. Do you ever consider coming back in some form to the X-Men universe? Because selfishly that’s what I want.
The answer to that is it’s not my decision. One of the reasons I left the X-Men universe.
Well, I know that, but it’s at a new company now, so that’s why I wonder.
Yeah, but it’s still “the company.” I would never say never. If they asked and if there was a way of doing something really, really good, why not? The thing is, I have so much of my own stuff to do now that, doing something for someone else, it really has to be something so special. But who knows? Ironically…I’d always wanted to make a Superman movie. But I’ve missed that one. So there’s something about Superman. But that’s not Marvel, but who knows, maybe. I’m never saying never.
Yeah. James Gunn seems to have taken that one on his own.
Yeah, he beat me to it.
The new and last Beatles song, “Now and Then,” is all over this movie. How did that happen?
Literally, I was speaking to Giles Martin, who’s the producer of the song. And I said, “Look, I’m finding it really hard. I need to find a love song with pathos and hope. And Giles said to me, “Well, I’ve got something. I’ve got a new Beatles song.” I initially thought he was joking. This was a year and a half ago.
Oh, wow. Of course, you’re like, “What are you talking about?”
Yeah! It was the strangest. I was like, Wow. And then he played it to me. I said, “Oh my God, this is amazing. I think it’s perfect.” And then we put it on the movie and I didn’t have to change a single frame. And at that point I was like, now’s the catch. How much is it going to be? And what do I have to do to get the last ever Beatles song? And Giles then introduced me to Sir Paul. And I had to speak to him and show him stuff and he said yes. And then we went through the whole Beatles empire, and the wives, and the daughters, and the sons, and they all said yes in the end. And it was a true privilege and an honor to be able to work with the Beatles.
Music is so subjective that again, when I heard the song, I was literally listening to it through the eyes or ears of, will this be right for my movie? For my film? And then I was scared because it’s such an important tone and emotion needed from the song that normally I put famous songs because I know how people will react to that. I knew Free Bird would be right for the sequence. So I was like, oh my God, this is the first time I’m putting a new song in a movie…
From the Beatles no less.
Yeah, from the Beatles. But also, I was lucky enough that I knew it would be coming out before the movie. Because in the test screening, everyone’s like, “Wait, what’s that song? It sort of sounds like John Lennon and the Beatles.” And we are like, oh, it’s lucky they didn’t have their phones, otherwise they would’ve Shazamed out there. But afterwards they kept saying, “What was that disco song as well, at the end? We recognized it, but we don’t know it.” And I was laughing going, “Well, it’s a new disco song, which we’ve done called ‘Electric Energy,’ and it’s a new Beatles song, called ‘Now and Then.’” But I couldn’t say that at the time.
In Argylle there’s a Kingman reference. I can’t tell if that’s just a cheeky joke about Kingsman or if you’re actually trying to tie this into Kingsman. Because Kingsman was a Fox movie, and I guess is owned by Disney now? And Argylle is Universal. How does that work?
Well, the good news is deep down, Mark Millar owns both Kingsman and Argyle.
Oh, I see.
We can do whatever we want with it. And all I’d say is when you’re a super spy who only dresses in Nero suits, there’s only one tailor shop he’ll go to get them made.
Were you happy with the way The King’s Man was released? It was one of the Fox movies that now Disney owned. I really liked that movie, but it didn’t do as well as the other two movies.
It didn’t do nearly as well. Will I say I’m happy with the end result? Of course not. I was actually really sort of devastated by some of the reviews. I was like, I thought we made a bold original movie that… I was just surprised. Look, you’re a big boy, so you have to take it and just accept you can’t change a review.
To be fair, I was also surprised, because like I said I really liked it. But I wound up in the minority.
But I’m incredibly proud of the movie. And I think my initial instinct for The King’s Man was I wanted to make it as a TV series. It needed it to be different. And I was persuaded by, not Disney, but by Fox. They said please make it as a film. And I always felt there should be a sister piece on television, like The Crown meets spies, and that was the plan. So I think maybe as an audience, they were expecting it to be too much to be like the other Kingsman. But it couldn’t be. This was about the birth of The Kingsman, so therefore had to start somewhere very different. And by the end of the movie, it does get more Kingsman-y and gives you that link.
But I’m proud of that one. I have to say it’s a movie I’m really, really proud of. And ironically, I’ve had so many people come up to me saying, what the fuck? With those reactions. And I think people see on Disney+ and they enjoy it. So I don’t know. Sometimes when it comes to creativity, there is the most subjective thing and everybody is right and everybody is wrong about the same thing. So what some person loves another person hates. Why is that? I’ve seen movies I thought were just fucking terrible and it wins an Oscar. Or other movies I thought were great and tank. So I don’t know.
Well, I would watch more movies of Bryce Dallas Howard and Sam Rockwell together.
Great. Well, I hope you don’t have the same effect as you loving The King’s Man on this film, but let’s see what happens.
You can contact Mike Ryan directly on Twitter.
